Limyaael ([info]limyaael) wrote,
@ 2004-07-12 23:33:00
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Current mood: determined
Entry tags:characterization rants: secondaries, fantasy rants: summer 2004

Breathing life into bullies
Because, you know what?



1) Do not make the bully obsessive about your hero/heroine. Really. It doesn’t make all that much sense for a character who’s meant to be a minor antagonist and not the villain of the whole piece. He doesn’t need to be in every scene. For the scenes that you do need him in, it’s not all that hard to think up a reason for him being there. And most of all, it implies that he doesn’t have a life beyond the page. In a story filled with otherwise breathing characters, a bully who appears to be on the edge of stalking the hero or heroine sticks out like a sore thumb. Or a plot that is otherwise taut and moves the characters around reasonably looks as lacy as Swiss cheese.

There’s another reason, one that may be applicable if you’re using this bully as a character to vent your own rage about being bullied on. I think a lot of people who got the social ostracism/picking on treatment in high school, middle school, or wherever are far more obsessive about their bullies than their bullies ever were about them. I can still easily remember the names and faces of people who humiliated and teased me. I doubt any of them remember mine. It’s natural for your hero or heroine to hate and resent the person who adds a little pain to their lives. It’s unnatural if the bully, filling the minor villain role or a role that puts him in higher favor with the authorities than the protagonist (also possible), plans his whole life around tormenting someone. If nothing else, he’s probably got other people to beat up.

2) Consider reasons for why he torments people other than “he’s weak” or “he’s a coward” or “he’s jealous." Those first two have become clichés in bully stories. The second one never actually made much sense to me, since the bully was also portrayed as so stupid that I don’t think he would only know to pick on people weaker than he was. And the “he’s weak” excuse is one of those stupid “good characters have inner beauty, and bad ones have inner ugliness!” plot points again. It insists that antagonists cannot possibly be complicated, complex, or have inner lives that are anything but moldy and sad. If you want a living minor antagonist, you have to stay away from that.

The “he’s jealous” thing…it’s one of the cheating, negative ways that make your heroine look special when she hasn’t earned the right to be considered any such thing. I cannot tell you how many fantasy books, particularly YA ones, I’ve read where the heroine is proclaimed to be intelligent or especially skilled in magic or sword-fighting, yet still makes stupid decisions or has skills that don’t sound that impressive. The author seems to know this, so she introduces a bully character who snipes at the heroine for having those qualities. That isn’t the way to go about it. Write her better, don’t surround her with a Greek chorus that proclaims she must be wonderful because people are so jealous of her.

3) Give your bully character at least one skill that the hero/heroine does not have. This doesn’t have to be whatever skill brings them together; for example, if they’re training in sword-fighting together, the bully doesn’t have to be better with the sword. (Though, just once, I really would like to read a fantasy story where the heroine is not a better fighter than the bully just because she is the heroine). The bully can be more clever- also a story I would like to see- quicker with the comebacks, faster, stronger, more beautiful or handsome, more successful with the ladies or men, more confident, not whiny… lots of possibilities.

Also, NO CHEATING. This does not count at all if the only reason the bully is better is because of teacher favoritism, his family being noble, only smarmy women/men being interested, the heroine having a bad ankle injury when they tried to run a race, etc. It also doesn’t count if a person in higher authority steps in and declares that the protagonist is the “winner in spirit” or some such nonsense. That turns the story into another triumphal march for the protagonist, the bully into another flat character whose skills don’t matter next to the Specialness of the hero, and really, doesn’t fantasy have enough of those stories already?

To give you a Good Example, there’s a relationship between the royal brothers Rupert and Harald in Simon R. Green’s Blue Moon Rising that has the potential to turn into a typical “The hero is better, yay!” story, but manages to avoid it neatly. Rupert is the younger son, and a cause for concern in a Kingdom with a healthy heir; there’s always the chance that disloyal factions might try to use him against his father and brother. (And the nobles of the Forest Kingdom make rats on a sinking ship look loyal). He’s offered a chance for exile, supposedly killing a dragon, but instead brings the dragon, and the princess it “stole,” back to the castle. There we get to see that Harald is not a stupid, swaggering bully-boy. He’s a cold bastard who taunts his brother, and the story does favor Rupert, but Harald is smarter than Rupert, more efficient, more loyal to the throne, and will likely make a better King.

Harald is the one bully character I’ve ever cheered on, particularly in one scene with the disloyal nobles when he does the absolute coolest thing ever. He works because he’s a person, not just a foil for Rupert.

4) Unless you are in the 10% of fantasy authors who can do love triangles well in general, do not make your bully part of a love triangle with your protagonist and his or her love interest. 90% of fantasy love triangles I’ve read don’t work, even in cases where the author can write good romance as well as good fantasy. The thing is, a good love triangle has to have suspense as well, has to offer a true question as to who the person in the middle will choose, and a lot of fantasy authors suck at suspense. This is probably because most fantasy authors suck at making the Other Woman or Other Man anything like a person. They’re so blindingly and obviously wrong for the person in the middle that you wonder why there’s any choice to be made (and I, at least, start doubting the narrative even more viciously if it insists on telling me that the person in the middle is clever, intelligent, wise, what-have-you).

It only increases when you add a badly-developed bully in there. Well, let’s see. Here’s the clever, beautiful, accomplished, compassionate protagonist, or a love interest who has the same qualities, and there’s the bully, who the author presents as a one-dimensional shadow of a character interested mostly in tormenting the protagonist and boasting about his own qualities. Who will the person in the middle choose? Gee, I wonder. I really do…

I wonder what crack these authors are on to think this is a good idea.

If you are in the 10% of fantasy authors who can write good love triangles, you still have to make the bully a real person. This works in Blue Moon Rising. It turns out that the princess Rupert “rescues” from the dragon—in truth, it’s more like him rescuing the dragon from her—is actually Harald’s betrothed. Julia, the princess, is attracted to Rupert and loathes Harald at first, but Rupert goes off on a mission for months, and Harald is charming and understands the need for people to have sex even when they’re not in love. By the time Rupert comes back, Julia has loyalties to both brothers. She also agrees with Harald on the best way of defending the castle against the encroaching Darkwood, a way that Rupert thinks is suicidal. There aren’t any stupid reasons for Julia to dither between Rupert and Harald in this book, only reasons that make sense in the context of this story.

Also, have I mentioned that Harald is confident and sexually experienced, while Rupert rides a unicorn?

I love Blue Moon Rising.

5) Don’t use clichéd bully dialogue. Please, please don’t. Here is a list of some phrases I could live without ever seeing again, particularly in a scene set just before the protagonist beats the bully up with her Mad Skillz:

“You think you can take me?”
“No one will ever beat me!”
“But you’re just a girl!”
“You’re ________ [insert insult here]!”
“HA-ha!” or some other mutant version of the maniacal laugh.
“I’m the best ever!”

Basically, any insult against the poor tormented protagonist or some praising of his own skills. Other characters, especially the protagonist, are either never shown doing this or are shown doing this, but it’s excused- because of course when the protagonist insults or bullies someone, it’s always justified. (And yes, I have read stories where the author’s precious hero or heroine bullied someone. The author just didn’t call it that, because of course once you are teased, that gives you a shining halo).

This reduces the bully to a shadow character, again.

6) If you must have an ass-kicking scene at the end, keep it short and sweet. Sometimes I think fantasy authors only put minor protagonists in their stories at all so that the hero or heroine can strut their stuff and kick the bullies’ asses in the end.

Here is my list of reasons not to do this:

1) There is almost no way to make this scenario original.
2) It relies on a lot of the caricatures I’ve already named (especially the obsessive bully who has apparently thought of nothing night and day but the protagonist coming back so he can torment her again).
3) The author’s own teenage angst issues are written across the pages in blazing neon letters ten feet high.

That said…

If you build it up enough during the story, then you can create a credible bully who still totally deserves a good ass-kicking. See Blue Moon Rising (yes, this is the Good Book today). Harald is clever and a good king and apparently treats Julia well, but in the end, well, he still wants Julia, and he still has tormented and harried Rupert in the past for being Rupert, and different than he is. There is a confrontation at the end of the book, the details of which I won’t spoil for you. But Simon R. Green gets it over with in the space of about a page. Far more important is where the protagonists are going to go after that, and what they’re going to do.

And he still managed to make it funny, and totally deserved. It was a scene where I cheered for Rupert, despite cheering for Harald earlier in the story. Had it gone on for pages and pages of the protagonist gloating (and, to me, heroes and heroines gloating are no more attractive about doing it than anyone else), I would have finished the book in a much more sour mood, instead of giggling like I was punch-drunk.



This rant is hardly going to stop authors from using stock minor villains, but I wish they would stop for the same reason I wish they would stop creating stock major villains: it denies those people any humanity. Slipping inside the skin of every character in your world makes for the best writing, I think. And if that means moving past their own teenage angst issues, so be it.




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[info]tsuki_no_bara
2004-07-12 08:59 pm UTC (link)
>>Also, have I mentioned that Harald is confident and sexually experienced, while Rupert rides a unicorn?<<

bwahahaha! harald really comes across as the winner here.... seriously.

i don't think i have any reoccurring minor bullies, and i really only have one villain, and i hardly ever write him because it's hard to get into his head - he's kind of a sociopath, and the only reason he does what he does and is as evil as he is, is because he likes being that way. it never mattered to me why he did what he did, only that he did it. and he's an equal-opportunity bad guy, in terms of tormenting. and he's really not thinking about you, because he's more interested in current and future "projects." i like him, but he's hard to write.

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[info]limyaael
2004-07-13 06:26 am UTC (link)
Sociopathic villains done right can work, but I think they're a tad overused, just like the traditional insane villain. If the author doesn't strive to make them a) seem genuinely sociopathic (instead of, say, screwed up by a bad childhood or something) and b) frightening, it doesn't work. I've read several books where the author insisted the villain was a sociopath, but violated one of those two rules, so I just ended up snickering.

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[info]tsuki_no_bara
2004-07-13 07:10 am UTC (link)
...i have this bad feeling that luis ATE his parents.... eeep. i don't think he's entirely textbook sociopathic, tho, i think he's mostly just without conscience. and i try to make him genuinely scary.... (partly by not writing about him a lot. :D ) and i'm with you, i'd like to see a villain who was that way for reasons OTHER than he (or she) had a horrible childhood. i want to see my heroes face TRUE EVIL, dammit! i know it's gotta be out there somewhere....

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(Anonymous)
2004-07-14 12:42 am UTC (link)
Some rules I found useful when writing sociopaths or insane villains:

"No one but me really exists. You are all figments of my imagination." (Athyra mystics)
"I own you." (Queen Jadis)
"I have superior knowledge and insight. Rules do not apply to me." (That one's common even in RL.)
"I am a messenger of the gods and I will destroy evil!" (Jin from "Usagi Yojimbo")
"It's dog eat dog out there -- do unto others before they do to you." (Again, common)
"The world needs to be put out of its misery." (Willow in 6th season Buffy)
"Someone has to be evil for good to have meaning. It's a rotten job, but someone has to do it." (Mephistopholes)

The really fun and scary thing is that those people might occasionally do good if it suits their twisted perceptions. Naive heroes are in for the shock of their lives.

inge

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[info]onyxflame
2006-02-25 11:01 pm UTC (link)
Err...what if you WANT your insane villain to be funny? I won't try to figure out why he's insane for a long time yet, but man the weirdness he'll be capable of... *cackle*

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[info]erythros
2004-07-12 09:06 pm UTC (link)
You realize that it is now my sworn duty to make you cheer for Eldest Son at some point. (I may've worked out how to do it, too; Eldest Son has a working sense of humor, and Youngest Son has no trace of one at all.)

I'm going to hunt down Blue Moon Rising now, thank you! Hee hee hee, his name is RUUUUUUUpert.

... There's one Japanese comic book series that does both GoodBully and BadBully well - the main character is the Best Martial Artist In The World, and he has the GoodBully, a sweet lummox, obsessed with taking his revenge; then we have the BadBully, who is Close Contender For Best Martial Artist Ever, who is smarter, wittier, and more handsome than the main character, but who doesn't give tuppence about the main character unless said m.c. gets in his way. It's awesome. ... and, okay, insults about looking TOTALLY GIRLY are just BETTER in Japanese.

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[info]otakukeith
2004-07-13 02:47 am UTC (link)
GoodBully is Ryouga...who's BadBully?

insults about looking TOTALLY GIRLY are just BETTER in Japanese

They're also better when the character being insulted turns into a girl when splashed with cold water. :D

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[info]erythros
2004-07-13 07:00 am UTC (link)
OBVIOUSLY Pantyhose Tarou! *points at icon*

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[info]otakukeith
2004-07-14 02:07 am UTC (link)
Ah - I obviously haven't read far enough (only got volumes 1-8).

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[info]limyaael
2004-07-13 06:28 am UTC (link)
I do find it easy to smile for genuinely witty comebacks (genuinely witty ones. I think you know my opinion of the stupid hero before the Dark Lord's throne who insists on being an idiot with his big mouth and still lives).

And I hope you can find Blue Moon Rising. Sometimes it's out of print, sometimes it's in, and then Amazon is wrong and there it is sitting on the shelf. It's Green's best book, I think, and his mixture of gore and one-liners is...oddly fascinating once you get used to it.

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[info]tiferet
2004-07-12 09:16 pm UTC (link)
JK Rowling so needs to read this.

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[info]erythros
2004-07-12 09:30 pm UTC (link)
Well, I've figured it out.

Harry is obviously the bully, and Draco is the poor widdle picked-on protagonist.

I am actually ashamed of not catching onto this sooner.

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[info]limyaael
2004-07-13 06:28 am UTC (link)
*grin* Thanks for the compliment.

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[info]jordan179
2007-05-15 07:08 pm UTC (link)
JK Rowling so needs to read this.

Oh, I find both Draco Malfoy and his two goons totally believable. Draco is trying to live up to the ideals of his father, even though he doesn't totally share them, and is getting in over his head. As for his two goons, Crabbe and Goyle, there is never a shortage of big stupid nasty people just smart enough to find someone nasty (but smarter) to follow.

Draco isn't a Cardboard Bully, and Harry isn't even always in the right when he confronts him (in particular, he would have done far better not to fight him that time when he found Draco with Myrtle, and not just because he used too lethal a spell). I think Rowling writes her villains well.

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[info]youraugustine
2004-07-12 10:06 pm UTC (link)
Know what else is fun?

Making your protagonist the petty bully.

Oh yes.

=D

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[info]limyaael
2004-07-13 06:29 am UTC (link)
That can work, if done right. But (just as in my comment to [info]tsuki_no_bara above) I've seen several times where the author blamed the whole thing on Mommy or Daddy, or other petty bullies teasing him, and took away all the bully's self-will.

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[info]nextian
2004-07-13 10:52 am UTC (link)
Arawn! Don't tell me you don't cheer for Arawn!

...I'm done now.

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[info]limyaael
2004-07-13 11:36 am UTC (link)
...Not sure who you mean, here.

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[info]nextian
2004-07-13 11:43 am UTC (link)
Arawn. From A Heart Apart. Mr. Possesive. Mr. HAHA I BEAT UP PETER NOW SHAG ME.

Ringing a bell?

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[info]undeadgoat
2004-07-14 05:47 pm UTC (link)
Isn't Arawn the Big Bad of Brydain? Or am I mixing up obviously seperate characters with different names again?

(Incidentally, I really wish Tolkien hadn't invented a language where the name "Morwen" makes sense, because now I have Turin's mother all mixed up in my head with witches like Morwen in Dealing with Dragons.)

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[info]undeadgoat
2004-07-14 05:47 pm UTC (link)
Prydain, that is. Have I ever mentioned I can't type?

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[info]nextian
2004-07-14 08:33 pm UTC (link)
I don't know, I haven't read most of the Prydain books...they *cough* kinda annoyed me please don't kill me. The Arawn I'm referring to IS erythros' character, although I wasn't trolling--I mean it! I LIKE BIG BULLY ARAWN. I swear.

*wink*

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[info]erythros
2004-07-13 11:43 am UTC (link)
*wincing* She's mocking me, I sense. Arawn is one of mine: a beautiful brainless bully constantly on the verge of blowing things up (and wanting to blow up Yama for no particular reason except that it'd really be something to get girls with).

... it's really sad that people by now know that they can troll me IN YOUR JOURNAL.

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[info]dawnkiller
2004-07-13 02:06 am UTC (link)
Hee hee. Bullies are something Peter David did pretty well in "Sir Apropos of Nothing". The main character is, outside of the normal "tease the crippled son of the local tavern whore" childhood experiences, actually bullied for a reason he himself acknowledges: being unable to keep his big mouth shut. He does indeed get one-upmanship of one particular bully (the sadly named Mace Morningstar) at the end of the book, but, even though Apropos doesn't want to give him a lot of credit, it's clear that Mace has a life outside of the main character. There's even a (very brief) moment where the two of them come to something approaching comraderie, which was refreshing.

Also, the main antagonist, while not strictly a bully, is also clearly the better man. Handsome, clever, talented -- and it drives the incredibly flawed protagonist nuts. The petty, opportunistic protagonist . . . heh heh.

David also gets points, BTW, for allowing his 1st person POV protagonist, ostentibly the good guy, come *this* close to actually committing rape in the second book. This isn't a subject many writers dare.

Book rec aside, #2 seems to be the biggest problem for most people -- possibly because they don't want to admit to themselves that the bullying is a result of anything as simple as 1) the bully genuinely not liking them, or 2) sheer boredom. Seriously, surely everyone has felt -- at least once -- that someone around them was a convenient and clear mark for ridicule, and kids and teens have fewer inhibitions about doing horribly insensitive or painful things. (Y'know, like tearing a worm in half just to see if they really do grow into two new worms.) In all likelihood, the majority of bullying probably isn't even personal -- just opportunistic. It'd be nice if the person who tormented you every day really was jealous of you, but in all honesty that's probably not the case. Most of the time, kids pick each other apart because that's what kids do, without any real thought as to the psychological ramifications on their victims. Thinking otherwise is (usually) just an egocentric self-defense mechanism of the victim. Considering the state of mind bullying can put you in it's probably a good one (and I say this as someone who's been through such hillarious hazing gags as being pushed into oncoming traffic . . . multiple times), but it has no place in fiction.

I'd also like to see more stories where we see the protagonist actually earn a bully's derision, even if the protagonist himself isn't aware of the cause. God forbid the hero actually gives someone a REASON to be annoyed with them! Authors need to have more faith in their characters. If they're any good, we'll love 'em even if they have flaws -- and like you said, a character being praised by all other characters makes the audience less inclined to agree, not more. Everybody has someone they don't get along with . . .

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[info]limyaael
2004-07-13 06:32 am UTC (link)
I really ought to finish reading "Sir Apropos." I found it so hard to keep going after the rape scene with Apropos's mother that I just stopped. But it's a good sign if he can make me feel something that strongly, I guess.

And YES. Thank you, YES. That's what really disturbs me about all the "Well, I'm using this character to vent my rage on them" stories: it insists these people were really like that, all hate and jealousy and no inner lives of their own, nothing to do but wait for the poor tormented author hero to show up so they could pound him. I don't believe there are many people like that at all, and certainly not every person who picked on someone else in high school. (Hell, I giggled with my own friends about some of the bullies when they failed classes, and how was that any different, really?) It might help the author, but at times it just seems to help keep the grudge alive, rather than promoting moving past it and letting go.

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[info]dawnkiller
2004-07-13 11:55 am UTC (link)
That's what really disturbs me about all the "Well, I'm using this character to vent my rage on them" stories: it insists these people were really like that, all hate and jealousy and no inner lives of their own, nothing to do but wait for the poor tormented author hero to show up so they could pound him.

Yeah, that's what bugs me the most, too. It displays an astounding lack of empathy on the author's part -- which is pretty much the reason why the main character is hacked off at the bully in the first place. It doesn't get much further than "They don't understand me, ergo they're bastard" for most heros, and no effort is made to understand the bully. Or the parent, since that's a common thing, too. (Oddly, this is something I remember Bruce Coville doing very well in his YA series "My Teacher is an Alien". One of the main characters is your typical sci-fi nerd, whose father is so horribly negligant of him that he actually finds it preferable to leave the planet than stay in the same house with the guy -- while the reader discovers later that his dad cared much more than he ever thought he did, and it was simply a lack of understanding and communication that caused the rift. Covielle was great that way.)

Also brings to mind Martin's Genuinely Frightening bully, Gregor Clegane. I mean, here's a guy who pushed his little brother's face into a fire just for taking one of his toys, and yet he doesn't really come off as malevolant -- just a big, stupid brute who never got past that stage of childhood where you'll tear a butterfly's wings off just to see what happens. The malice isn't personal, he's just indiscriminantly cruel . . . and that's why he's so frightening. I think the fact that he doesn't single out any one character in particular for abuse is what makes his character so workable, because hey, even if he DOES make it a habit to harm people, it's just his job.

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[info]kdorian
2004-07-13 08:10 pm UTC (link)
Apropos is a wonderful example of 'the flaw makes the character'. Because, really, if you took his flaws away he would be downright boring.

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[info]otakukeith
2004-07-13 02:44 am UTC (link)
Note to self: read Blue Moon Rising.

If an author sticks in a show-up-the-bully scene to work off their teen angst issues, that's childish and frankly a bit pathetic coming from anyone even vaguely adult-aged. Thankfully, I don't think I've read many books like that, with the possible exception of some of Anne McCaffrey's stuff.

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[info]limyaael
2004-07-13 06:33 am UTC (link)
I've heard people justify the bully scenes as cathartic for the author. I tend to think of them the way I think of Mary Sue fanfics, though: they're fun for the author, but not fun for other people, and they should stay on her hard drive where they belong.

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Friendly
[info]shadenv
2004-07-13 09:35 am UTC (link)
I'm going to friend you. I am doing this for two reasons.

A) your rants are highly entertaining and always a good read.
and
B) eventually I will get back into writing fiction, and damnit, you have some excellent points that none of my how-to-be-a-writer books ever bring up, and what's even better, it's specific to the genre I want to break into. I'm not say that your word on how to write is gospel, but it does seem like sound "what not to do" advice (although I could disagree with some of your examples, but meh.)

I hope you don't mind.

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Re: Friendly
[info]limyaael
2004-07-13 11:36 am UTC (link)
Nope, that's fine. I wanted genre-specific advice, too, and there's too little of it in general writing books, so I started the rants as a way of clarifying my own thoughts. Glad if it makes sense to other people.

*friends back*

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[info]nextian
2004-07-13 10:55 am UTC (link)
5) Don’t use clichéd bully dialogue. Please, please don’t. Here is a list of some phrases I could live without ever seeing again, particularly in a scene set just before the protagonist beats the bully up with her Mad Skillz:

“You think you can take me?”
“No one will ever beat me!”
“But you’re just a girl!”
“You’re ________ [insert insult here]!”
“HA-ha!” or some other mutant version of the maniacal laugh.
“I’m the best ever!”


Actually, it's ha-HA! An important distinction.

Other than that, right on. I got picked on as a kid, and now my best friend's an exbully, and I hatehatehate it when bullies are just mean because they ARE. I never thought that, even in fifth grade when I was young and stupid. I knew they had actual motives and lives and many redeeming qualities, when they weren't picking on me.

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[info]limyaael
2004-07-13 11:38 am UTC (link)
I was friends with a guy who in hindsight was a worse bully than many of the people who teased me. He always had some clever and cutting thing to say about a classmate, and he usually said it right as the person passed by. Our friendship eventually ended over other issues, but it does go to show just how complicated a person can be- and the bullies had their friends, too, so they can't have been entirely hopeless.

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(Anonymous)
2004-07-14 12:54 am UTC (link)
and the bullies had their friends, too, so they can't have been entirely hopeless.

When thinking back about bullying I had done to me, bullying I have done to others and bullying I didn't stop: at least among girls, the bully's friends amplify the problem. In most cases I saw, the bully picked on some convenient nerd or loner to look good/witty/clever/strong to her friends, who were cheering her on, because, wasn't she so cool and wasn't "us vs. her" such a nice bonding experience?

inge

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[info]limyaael
2004-07-15 09:12 am UTC (link)
Well, see, in high school I was part of the nerd crowd. It's my experience that nerds can bully as much as anyone else. They just tend to do it with more words.

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[info]dots
2004-07-15 10:01 am UTC (link)
But of course in most fantasy fiction, the bullies won't understand those big words, because they're all brawn and no brain, right?

;)

Yet another thing with the bullies that annoys me is that idea.

Mmm, I was part of the nerd crowd too, and from my experience nerds and their word-bullying can often be more vicious than physical bullies or the like.

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Bullies...
[info]thesmoot
2004-07-13 09:39 pm UTC (link)
I thought it was "Haw-haw!" (Or is that Jack Chick tracts? ;) )

While we're on the subject, I'd like to recommend two related pieces:

"A Poetics for Bullies"- a (non-genre) short story by Stanley Elkin, from the point of view of a bully named Push who has to, suddenly, share a school with the Most Wonderful Guy Ever.

Brown Harvest- a novel by Jay Russell. In a way, this is a bit like one of Alan Moore's 'crossoverpalooza' things, but in this case it's all figures from kids stories, about 20-30 years later.

It's not a consistently brilliant read, but a scene where Ency. Brown's bully nemesis, Roach, shows him up in class- without cheating- is very well done.

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[info]undeadgoat
2004-07-14 05:59 pm UTC (link)
Mmph. This is the bit where I yell and scream ineffectually at my library for not owning a copy of Blue Moon Rising. And the just-Wisconsin loan system won't let me log in without a PIN, which I don't have, and the huge Interlibrary Loan system doesn't let normal people just put things on hold from home.

If you total up the figures for all the different results which are the right book, you get that the maximum number of libraries in the world is 200. And probably there's a few libraries out there with two editions.

I can't afford to buy books, dammit! I am suffering from "broke teenager whose money is all either in change or a personal check graduation gift that has not yet been cashed and who is only owed two dollars of back allowance" and I owe practically 10 bucks in overdue fines . . . I really should start babysitting. And hoping that this book lives somewhere in the local Borders or the friendly neighborhood used book store, because I don't have a car or a credit card, and it's *hard* to get my parents to drive me places.

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[info]dots
2004-07-14 10:35 pm UTC (link)
TEHSHOCK.

One of my main characters is a bully, and I didn't even attempt to lay the blame on anyone else. I even had him acknowledge that he beat up on younger kids for no good reason besides boredom.

Oddly, he remains a bully through the whole book as written now--he picks on his teacher (who, although older and more magically powerful than him, is a physical wuss and incredibly short).

If I make him into a cliche!bully, may fate strike me down, because IMO he's one of the first even SEMI-genuine OCs that I created. So destroying him would be like raping myself. Urg.

Also.

This rant is hardly going to stop authors from using stock minor villains, but I wish they would stop for the same reason I wish they would stop creating stock major villains: it denies those people any humanity.

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU *kisses feet*

If I had a nickel for every time I read a lousy stock villain, be it minor or major, I could buy myself a nice dinner.

I pointed the issue out to a friend when we were arguing over certain villain characters and who was cooler--she held with Ultimate Unreasoned Evil, but I had to point out that I liked the humanity in my villain, because it made him easier to identify with.

Personally, I think the scariest villains are those you might identify with, because then you can see how they got the way they are and even possibly see how you or the Goodguys could have easily followed the same route.

And the “he’s weak” excuse is one of those stupid “good characters have inner beauty, and bad ones have inner ugliness!” plot points again. It insists that antagonists cannot possibly be complicated, complex, or have inner lives that are anything but moldy and sad.

I cannot tell you how much I love this comment, right here. There are far too many shallow villains or bullies in fantasy, and it kind of makes me ashamed to consider myself even somewhat of a fantasy author (dear Lord, I'm trying, but it's hard to convince myself that my writing is not all lousy or that maybe I'm doing something right). I've put a load of effort into making my villains human, and while I admit to giving one of my favorites a tiny bit of insanity, more of him is just sheer determination and cunning--there was something earlier I saw you say about how you'd prefer a villain whose interests simply conflicted with the Hero's as opposed to insanity or Take-Over-The-World-Pure-Evilness. I've been striving for that with my villains--I can only hope I do it half decently.

Er. Anyway, I'll stop ranting now. I look forward to the next entry--your "rants" are really helping me to improve my own writing, and since my dream is to get published, that means a lot!

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[info]limyaael
2004-07-15 09:13 am UTC (link)
Glad if it helped! A character like a bully is one of the hardest ones to make truly real, I think. He doesn't have the angst attraction factor of a tormented hero (or a teased kid), nor the brooding melodrama of a Dark Lord. He's just kind of there.

But I think fantasy could use more "just kind of there" characters. I certainly find it easier to empathize with someone muddling through his problems than someone who has magic or a destiny that I never will.

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[info]applegnat
2004-07-15 09:09 am UTC (link)
That's a brilliant rant. I'm amazed at your clarity and insight. Of course, this is the truth. Bullies are interesting people too! Except when they're secretly troubled by sadistic fathers. That is very 1996 (or whenever L. Malfoy came to the notice of fanficcers).
But I agreee with whoever said that JKR would do well to read this. She's a ficcer in disguise as a pro!

But I would very much like to friend you, so thank you, again, and I hope it's alright?

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[info]limyaael
2004-07-15 09:15 am UTC (link)
Sure, that'd be fine. *friends you back*

Bullies are wasted potential a lot of the time. When they're in otherwise good stories, like the ones I complained about in the first point, I always mourn that the author apparently just couldn't think of what to do about them.

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[info]applegnat
2004-07-15 09:30 am UTC (link)
I always mourn that the author apparently just couldn't think of what to do about them.


Very true, and not just for the pore wastede bullie.

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[info]alex_von_cercek
2004-08-22 07:21 am UTC (link)
Heh, apparently, I'm one of the few people on the internet who were never bullied as a child.

This was because I had the right friends. The friends I'd been friends with since we were all five years old, and they were esentially the kind of people that simply do not get bullied. Ever. By proxy, I got their protection. Matter of fact, I think we even WERE bullies occasionally, and I know the reason damn well. It was because of the people who weren't part of our pack, but wanted to be.

They were so...pathetic, with the things they'd to to get on our good sides. So obviously we developed little beyond contempt for them. I remember a kid that none of us liked because he kept saying bullshit like "my uncle has a submarine/helicopter/something else that was really cool" so we'd become his friends. And the funniest part was that I was never, ever really suited to be part of this pack. I mean, I think I was more or less a natural victim, but since I hung out with the non-victims, I never became one.

Plus, once or twice, when my friends got into the more serious kinds of fights (aka the dick that was harasing them had an older brother or something), I applied bandages to friendly casualties and occasionaly smuggled people into my house and out the back way to their homes, where they would be safer from retribution.

Mind you, we didn't do the "give us yer lunch-money" stuff. Yay for "At least we weren't as bad as SADDAM" arguments!

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[info]onyxflame
2006-02-25 10:45 pm UTC (link)
1) Do not make the bully obsessive about your hero/heroine.

Err...one of my mini-villains thinks it's all one of my good guys' fault that Mr. Villain's father died. (I'm not sure exactly what happened, but it was more complicated than that. Good Guy *did* contribute to it though.) So he's just a bit *too* obsessive about him...leaves his post at the guardhouse and everything, and later gets lost because he has to run around avoiding the guards sent after him for being a deserter, heh.

Then again, I've got about a bazillion villainey guys running around, and they all have what they think are good reasons for what they do. Even the worst villains think what they do is the only way to do things.

2) Consider reasons for why he torments people other than “he’s weak” or “he’s a coward” or “he’s jealous."

Ooo. What if there was a villain who thought of torture as flirting, so he's actually in his own mind not being a bully at all, but giving the heroine what he thinks of as the ultimate respect? And she goes ow you mean little bastard, and he's actually *hurt* by this. Villains have feelings too! :P

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[info]chelonianmobile
2006-04-18 10:20 am UTC (link)
My story opens with the heroine's rivalry with a Meen Gurl character, but since the heroine is promptly framed for the Meen Gurl's murder and banished, Meen Gurl doesn't come into the story all that much. But I do need to make sure that even though you're supposed to hate Meen Gurl, you still don't wish death on her - just like the heroine. Tricky. Gotta give her some personality beyond "snotty little bitch".

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