Limyaael ([info]limyaael) wrote,
@ 2004-08-24 20:45:00
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Current mood: amused
Entry tags:characterization rants: protagonists, fantasy rants: summer 2004

Flaw-scrubbing rant
The title of this rant refers to a process that happens to characters who start off genuinely flawed—usually the heroes, but sometimes villains or random minor characters who need to learn a lesson. The author scrubs them throughout the book, turning every flaw or possibly murky incident into its best possible interpretation, and insisting that some other things that made the character who he was change completely. Now, I’m all for character arcs, but only if they don’t produce a shining, flawless stereotype at the end.



1) Don’t scrub away every prejudice. [info]ladybirdsleeps remarked to me once that fantasy authors have more fear of writing a character as a racist than they do writing him as a murderer. I think that’s true.

Racist characters are damn rare in fantasy in the first place, but there are characters who hold other kinds of prejudices. They’re sexist, or speciesist, or afraid of magic, or whatever. In some cases, the prejudice makes more sense than the open-mindedness of other people (I have to admit to snickering at any number of cosmopolitan peasant brats who have never seen elves, are surrounded by other people who fear and mistrust them, and yet somehow inherently know that Elves Are Good). But the character is not allowed to remain prejudiced. Oh, no. Authors can write a hero who kills right and left, or leaves his best friend to die if it turns out that the best friend acts hostile to his newfound love interest, but gods forbid that they write a bigot!

The problem is, the changeover is very rarely done right. Many fantasy authors seem to take the simplistic view that the character’s prejudice comes from never “knowing” a member of the group in question, and that all they have to do is introduce one who is so goshdarn amazing that the prejudiced character just can’t retain his beliefs. This is a common source of stupid comeback scenes in fantasy. The prejudiced character makes some remark, the goshdarn amazing outsider retorts, and the prejudiced character is left slackjawed. Most of the time, these remarks are not genuinely witty, and there’s no reason they should take the other person aback the way they do. Prejudice does not correlate 100% of the time with a lack of intelligence or conversational flair. Some very smart people, and some very good speakers, have believed some very stupid things.

Another problem is speed. The author wants the prejudiced character to give up a lifelong belief in a week? A month? Two months? Yes, of course that must happen, because that’s how long the fantasy book covers, and the prejudiced character must become a flawless stereotype before then. Really, people, it needs longer than that.

And finally, the journey is almost invariably portrayed as one from ignorance to warm-happy-everything-love. Forgive me for being cynical and looking at some of the people I’ve known, but my feeling is that people who do change deeply-held ideas they were fanatical about are often at least as fanatical about the new ones. Why would a character who has been convinced not to hate elves not look down on the people who still hate elves? Why does he become at one with the universe, instead of a fanatic for the other side? One aspect of his personality has altered, not the whole thing.

If you really use prejudice as a flaw, show how the character changes from it. Don’t just scrub it off like dirt under the fingernails.

2) Don’t change every murky incident into a Misunderstanding. This is the problem in stories where the heroine is supposedly a slut, and then it turns out that she’s a maligned virgin, or in the stories where the hero has a badass reputation and it turns out that he really just lets his “victims” loose with a stern warning.

Let people not shine all the time, please.

Sometimes there’s a weird thing that happens in fantasy stories where authors let their characters make mistakes. It still doesn’t happen to the hero, but instead everyone else in the story is mistaken about him. They think he’s a coward, and lo, he is not, he is The Most Awesome Warrior Ever. They think he betrayed his country, and of course he didn’t, he was framed. They think he married the wrong person, and of course not, they just didn’t understand the eternal purity of their love.

Gossip is harder to deal with than many authors think. (This goes back to prejudice again). Even if shown incontrovertible evidence that what they believe is not true, many people may go on believing it—because they don’t accept the evidence, because it suits their purposes, whatever. The stain or shadow on a character’s reputation of things half-heard or half-seen can be much harder to get rid of than an outright act of good or evil. And it should be half-heard or half-seen, not simple truth or lies. If there wasn’t any doubt at all, and everyone who was anyone knew the truth all along, how did the hero’s reputation stay stained?

Let the murk linger. It can give characters depths and shadows that they won’t get if the author reveals that they were wise and perfect and noble and badass from the day they were born. Or consider revealing the truth—that no, the character didn’t betray his country like everyone said, he did something even worse. That kind of reversal isn’t often used, and may add to your story tremendously if it’ll fit.

3) Don’t ennoble everyone’s motives. You know this one. It might be more frequent than the smog that the author disperses at a moment’s notice. The hero did kill someone else, but it was self-defense, not murder. He does rob people, but only to give the money to the poor. She did sleep around, but she did it under compulsion, because otherwise the bad guy would have murdered her true love. (I will now declare my eternal hatred for that plotline). She did kill the child, but the child was actually the source of all evil in the world.

And yea verily, I say unto thee, “The wisest of people make mistakes. Show them doing it, and show them doing it for the wrong reasons, too.”

Redemption is possible in a fantasy story. It matters much less, however, if it turns out that the character really didn’t have anything to be redeemed of, and was just beating himself up over nothing. That’s flaw-scrubbing, showing that the character always acts for the right reasons. Desperation, helplessness, honest ignorance? Never! The character is always acting in the name of the Greater Good or the Higher Light or to save the world.

Pfft.

This doesn’t mean you have to make all your characters into mercenaries. The motives I mentioned above can make a person do stupid things, and yet they’re eminently understandable. But they do make your character into a real person, not a shining paragon.

Note to flaw-scrubbing fantasy authors: This is something to be valued, not run from.

4) Don’t take away flaws because of a prophecy. If your princess is spoiled and a brat, she shouldn’t become a better person just because she’s the object of a prophecy. If your peasant heroine is awkward and earthy and makes inappropriate decisions about men, she shouldn’t suddenly move like a dancer and have good table manners and only choose the one man who will really love her back just because the Wise Old Mentor has informed her she’s the Moon Child of poetry.

This seems to happen more often with prophecies than just with simple saving the world, probably because of the odd idea that if a bit of doggerel predicted your coming several hundred years before, you must be more important than someone who’s probably going to be great. Prophecies do weird things to people’s brains, I swear, both in and out of fantasy. The Moon Child can have no flaws, so, decides the author, the heroine (who may have been normal and likeable up until then) can have no flaws, either.

Remember that a prophecy is, in the end, poetry, usually written with all the skill and subtlety of someone banging on piano keys with a sledgehammer. It by itself can’t convey greatness, and can’t insure that a person always does what is right. Don’t change your character into the person she’s predicted to be without going through the intervening steps. Prophecies predict the future, after all. Why not move her through a dangerous and awkward present first?

5) Don’t take away flaws by blinding the other characters. This is possible if the author isn’t writing strictly or solely from inside the heroine’s head, but also from the minds of sidekicks, love interests, secondary heroes, etc. The author can cheat and declare that, well, maybe Amalathistia really isn’t perfect, but her lover sees her as the most flawless thing to walk the earth, so she must be!

We’ve discussed this before. Yes, love can and does change people’s perspectives on each other, but it very rarely reaches into the other person’s chest, grabs their heart, and turns everything there to shining light. Amalathistia’s love interest might care for her enough to ignore the way that she tries to shift her problems onto other people’s shoulders. When the author returns to Amalathistia’s viewpoint, however, she should not have suddenly stopped doing that—especially if her love interest has never talked to her about it. Decisions reached or perspectives taken in other characters’ minds do not magically make people better. If the author wants to do her character arc, she has to do it from within the character as well as record the changing perceptions of her from outside.

6) Don’t change flaws without making the change cost something. And this, really, is the heart of flaw-scrubbing, what makes it different from a “simple” character arc or a person really growing and changing in a story. The author makes the character go through nothing more traumatic than a mere bath, when she should have nearly drowned.

You’ve seen these:

-the cowardly character who ends up feeling his fear vanish just before he faces his worst enemy.
-the heroine deathly afraid of her magic who realizes that it will come to her call, and is really no more dangerous than soft fluffy bunnies.
-the hero who worries about ruling a kingdom, only to realize that it’s no problem because he’s not a peasant, he’s the son of ancient kings, and people will follow him automatically.
-the heroine whose irrational hatred for the hero dissolves when, aww, he rescues a drowning puppy! Wookit! He’s wonderful because he wuvs wittle animals! (That last sentence was physically painful to write, just so you know).

What does it cost? Nothing. What does the character gain? Everything.

Character arcs resolving take investment and struggle and shaping and introspection, damn it. Not some candy-cotton “epiphany.”



This ties in with redemption stories, but so often the hero really has nothing to be redeemed from; the author just thinks he does, because my gosh, he’s not Mr. Perfect yet, and winds up blotting out all the shadows that actually make him human.




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[info]tavalya_ra
2004-08-24 06:39 pm UTC (link)
The author wants the prejudiced character to give up a lifelong belief in a week? A month? Two months?

If you are Lustbader, half an hour. After you've been raped by a member of the species you've formerly hated. Because another member told you the pet name his nurse called him. And now you are convinced the two of you are meant to be together and have babies.

The Ring of the Five Dragons... wasn't as bad as Wizard's First Rule. But it was up there. (Or down there, I should say.)

She did sleep around, but she did it under compulsion, because otherwise the bad guy would have murdered her true love. (I will now declare my eternal hatred for that plotline).

I hate to dig up bad memories, but where did you see that plotline?

the hero who worries about ruling a kingdom, only to realize that it's no problem because he's not a peasant, he's the son of ancient kings, and people will follow him automatically.

And then, due to bad leadership, all his subjects die. But again, no problem, because there's no one left to worry about ruling.

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[info]limyaael
2004-08-24 08:11 pm UTC (link)
I will forever avoid The Ring of Five Dragons anyway, but thank you for giving me another reason to do so!

I hate to dig up bad memories, but where did you see that plotline?

In the last Sword of Truth book I read, Temple of Winds. Both Richard and Kahlan have to sleep with other people because it's Destiny, or something. No, don't ask me why; I have forcefully blocked most of that part from my memory.

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[info]dawnkiller
2004-08-25 01:59 am UTC (link)
In the last Sword of Truth book I read, Temple of Winds. Both Richard and Kahlan have to sleep with other people because it's Destiny, or something. No, don't ask me why; I have forcefully blocked most of that part from my memory.

Darn, I had a much more amusing mental image formulated around this one, like the heroine had to go skank it up at the local bar or something (and not in the "You must work as my prostitute!" sense :P).

And hey, there's a whole other gripe. Why can't heroines be sluts without eventually suffering through a Reformation of the Soul? Heros don't have to go through that . . . although maybe it's because guys can't be sluts, they're just virile. :P (Re: Every James Bond movie ever created. Can't say I'm a fan of the lifestyle, but the gender-bias still bugs me.)

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[info]winterfox
2004-08-25 02:20 am UTC (link)
In the last Sword of Truth book I read, Temple of Winds. Both Richard and Kahlan have to sleep with other people because it's Destiny, or something. No, don't ask me why; I have forcefully blocked most of that part from my memory.

And they don't even actually, you know, sleep with other people. See, in order to fulfill the stoooopid prophecy, they have to be married. The Temple of the Winds decree that Kahlan is to be married to Drefan, Richard's brother; Richard is to be married to Nadine, a girl from his homeland. So the time comes for them to consummate the marriages. But! The Mord-Sith being possessed by the temple's decree (Cara) arranges it so that Kahlan goes with Richard and Nadine goes with Drefan. It's dark and all, and Kahlan thinks she's having sex with Drefan. So at first she is rigid and unresponsive. But then she decides that, hey, might as well enjoy it. So she does. And Richard gets mad, feeling betrayed, because oh noes his woman enjoys the sex when she thinks he is his brother.

Gosh. How did I manage to remember all that?

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[info]tavalya_ra
2004-08-25 12:26 pm UTC (link)
And Richard gets mad, feeling betrayed, because oh noes his woman enjoys the sex when she thinks he is his brother.

I'm surprised Kahlan didn't know that she was actually sleeping with Richard because of their bond of wuv.

Richard: How dare you orgasm when I make love to you!

::snicker::

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[info]avrelia
2004-08-25 01:48 pm UTC (link)
::dies from nausea::

Is he serious?

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[info]winterfox
2004-08-25 05:10 pm UTC (link)
Yes, I'm afraid he is.

*sacrifies several copies of the book to resurrect you*

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[info]limyaael
2004-08-25 06:02 pm UTC (link)
*snaps fingers*

That was it.

Can you blame me for hating Terry Goodkind for that? Well, and for everything else about the way he writes.

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[info]winterfox
2004-08-25 07:36 pm UTC (link)
Nope. Can't blame you at all.

I hate him, too. -.- What's worse, I remember in explicit details some of the more WTFish moments in his books. Like when Kahlan makes Denim (Demin?) Nass cut off his own penis and eat it.

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[info]criada
2004-08-25 10:57 am UTC (link)
>>And hey, there's a whole other gripe. Why can't heroines be sluts without eventually suffering through a Reformation of the Soul? Heros don't have to go through that . . . although maybe it's because guys can't be sluts, they're just virile. :P (Re: Every James Bond movie ever created. Can't say I'm a fan of the lifestyle, but the gender-bias still bugs me.)<<

My thoughts exactly. I wonder where are the girls who just like having lots of sex, and sleep around because of that, not because "they're immoral" or because of some neurotic insecurity, so that they think sleeping with men will somehow prove that said insecurity does not exist. (Prime suspects of this are middle aged woman full of botox, covered in bad fake tans and bleach jobs, who think that, rather than being themselves, wearing a trendy teenager's outfit will somehow make them young and desirable.) Of course, that's probably far too deep a concept for a fantasy book to deal with. They'll just let the girl be immoral. >:p

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[info]limyaael
2004-08-25 06:04 pm UTC (link)
I think it goes with virginity. Male virginity isn't a big issue in most fantasy books, but female virginity is, even in the ones that seem most "progressive." The hero might think the heroine has slept around with someone else, but it always turns out she's at least a technical virgin. As Mrs. Giggles would say, "Behold the power of the holy hymen!" *eyeroll*

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[info]dawnkiller
2004-08-25 07:45 pm UTC (link)
I find the double-standard weird nowadays not only because of the natural reaction to say "Uh, that's sexist", but also because I find the idea of skeezy men just as off-putting as skeezy women. Maybe it's the higher awareness of STDs in modern society or something, but there's a definite bias against being "easy" (which is a prejudice in and of itself in some contexts, and can be interesting in itself: re Alduous Huxley's "Brave New World", where the motto was "Everyone belongs to everyone else").

Oddly, I was rereading Stover's "Heros Die" the other day and noted the fact that though the amoral violence-happy main character makes numerous references to past sexual experiences, commercial and otherwise, he was actually tamed by the Love (and Leaving) of a Good Woman to such an extent that he barely even thinks of it anymore. Meanwhile, his ex-wife has moved on, and outside of the sudden realization that basically everyone knew someone else was sleeping with his wife there wasn't any kind of condemnation about it. Kind of a fun flip on the subject, especially since it's written by a man. :)

(And then, of course, you have Steven Erikson, whose women seem to be 100% in control of initiating sexual contact. This is scarring enough to some of the male population that at least one of them is reduced to tears because none of the three women he's seeing want to make a committment, for which he is mocked by less fortunate men. Heh.)

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[info]criada
2004-08-26 12:45 am UTC (link)
A very good point. It seems like the true defining feature of a virgin is purity of mind. "Innocence." Because it's really too vague to define physically. Although their virgin status may not be emphasized, chances are that a hero who is considered to be "pure" in that vague, fantasy way, will in fact, either be a virgin, or at least monogamous.
So, in that vein of thought, I guess that having an "impure" body means having an equally impure mind and soul. Of course, if a woman is like that, she's evil. If a man does, he's an angsty antihero, worthy of swooning over by teenaged fangirls.

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[info]tavalya_ra
2004-08-25 12:17 pm UTC (link)
In the last Sword of Truth book I read

I swear that when I read "Sword of Truth," my immediate instinct was to scream and dive under my computer table. I'm not surprised and I should have guessed.

I used to want to read Book Two of "Sword of Truth" just because I wanted to know Richard's reaction to learning that Darken Rahl was his father... but now, I've realized I really don't care and there are better books that deserve my time.

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[info]avrelia
2004-08-24 07:31 pm UTC (link)
the hero who worries about ruling a kingdom, only to realize that it’s no problem because he’s not a peasant, he’s the son of ancient kings, and people will follow him automatically.

No, they won’t , and if they do, it’ll end even worse.

You know, the last Russian Tsar, Nicolas II, was a very nice man – gentle, polite, altogether adorable .He loved his family, took his duties towards the country he was ruling very seriously. One might say every country would dream of such a ruler. I would say, no, unless you really want to face the consequences. Because he was a horrendous leader, a criminally inept leader, and on many accounts it were his actions (or lack of actions) that brought the country to the catastrophe.

This was all to say that in fantasy novel a good person too often equals a good leader. Which is very, very wrong.

Now about prejudices. Sometimes I have a feeling that even mentioning them scares authors of being not politically correct enough. First, screw this kind of political correctness. Not mentioning prejudices only propagates ignorance, and ignorance is the root of prejudices. Second, no one is completely free of prejudices. Not me, even though I consider myself fairly open-minded. Certainly not people in middle-age-like societies. And discarding old stereotypes and prejudices can happen quickly for some people, cannot happen at all for others, and a long and painful process for the society. For example, a hero is sure that all redheads are devil-worshipping sluts. Will a chance meeting with a chaste redheaded heroine conquer this conviction? No. But realizing that this conviction isn’t a fact, but the prejudice might do the trick. Or might not.

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[info]limyaael
2004-08-24 08:14 pm UTC (link)
Ah, but you see, the king must be the right person to rule, because he is THE KING, and growing up as a peasant has taught him all about hard work and fairness and how the common people live.

Personally, I think it won't have taught him anything but that life is nasty, brutish, and short, but oh well.

Prejudices are a weird beast in fantasy. I've yet to see a racist hero that the author truly tried to understand as a human being, or one who was allowed to keep his prejudice much past a meeting with someone of another race/species/group/whatever. For some people, it's possible the transition could be as quick as most authors portray, but then, they very rarely portray people for whom that would be realistic. Every prejudiced hero is supposedly gripping his beliefs unto death, and then gives them up when the plot needs him to. Weird.

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[info]avrelia
2004-08-24 08:22 pm UTC (link)
Well, growing up as a peasant could teach him to plough, sow, and harvest corn, tend the cows, and whatever else peasants are actually doing, and I would totally understand if he try to apply these skills to ruling of his Kingdom.

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[info]onyxflame
2006-02-27 05:09 am UTC (link)
Underling With Really Long Title: "Your Majesty! The Ambassador of Rygalix is moaning horribly! I think somebody poisoned her!"

King: "Have you tried milking her?"

...I don't think even *I* could write a story like that. Although there's ample room for bad "the peasants are revolting!" jokes.

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[info]luna_manar
2004-08-24 09:32 pm UTC (link)
Interestingly enough, one of the main characters in my original works is racist to some degree. I find the psychology of racism quite fascinating, myself, possibly because it isn't something I understand very well. Working with a character who is racist, trying to get into their head and understand exactly why they are instead of making up excuses for it (ignorance, shallowness, upbringing) is not only a good way to add to the depth of the character but also expand your own understanding.

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[info]limyaael
2004-08-25 06:05 pm UTC (link)
That's one of the most important things about writing, I think, the possibility of extending boundaries and breaking into mind-places that you've never visited yourself. And if the author declares she won't visit a racist character's mind, she's chopping out an essential part of human experience.

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[info]dawnkiller
2004-08-25 02:11 am UTC (link)
Second, no one is completely free of prejudices.

I know what you mean. And even when you realize it's a prejudice, sometimes that doesn't help on a gut-reaction level. Often someone of whatever minority is in question is automatically guilty until proven innocent (or "one of the good ones") -- and sometimes this is as far as you can go, if your cultural or personal conditioning is strong enough. (Personally I think it'd be a major step for an extremely racist character to even reach the "okay, so he's an exception" stage, but there aren't a lot of examples of this.)

One good example of a racist-done-right is, I think, William de Word from Pratchett's The Truth. Someone, I think it's Otto, mentions that William's prejudiced about basically every kind of minority thanks to his upbringing, but it's okay because Otto knows he tries hard not to be. (It's also amusing that part of William's motivation for this is that he's purposely rebelling against his father, so he's not being altogether altruistic, either. :)

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[info]criada
2004-08-25 11:10 am UTC (link)
>> Often someone of whatever minority is in question is automatically guilty until proven innocent <<

A corollary of this is something I personally have encountered. One of my prejudices is against Texans. I imagine them all to be loud, obnoxious morons. (This has softened a bit, having met some nice ones online) I know it is an irrational bias, and so whenever I meet one, I give them a chance, and they always prove to conform to my stereotype! I don't know if that's just because they are that way, if only the Texans who leave Texas are annoying, or, more to my point, if I'm only noticing those traits because they're the ones I'm looking for. So a racist may well meet plenty of nice minorities, and still come away feeling justified in his beliefs.
And who says they need to be a minority, there is so-called "reverse racism" where a minority, like the blacks, hate the white majority to an equally irrational degree. But, I guess they're a bit more justified in their hate, since they were oppressed by the people they hate. So much for turn the other cheek. That's why we get a lot of civil wars, like Israel/Palestine, and Northern Ireland, and I know it's a concept I'd like to see worked into more fantasy novels. If one side does the hating, you've got a tyranny, but if both sides hate eachother, you've got a far more realistic and potentially bloody situation. And that goes back to the rant about rebels and revolutionaries, which I know was recently covered here.

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[info]tasllyn
2004-09-12 02:06 am UTC (link)
lol, honestly, i'd have to agree with you. and i am a texan! ::scratches head:: and so are most of my friends, actually...

i don't really like the texan stereotypical personality, and there are too many people who conform to it. guess a lot of them do travel and spread the stereotype even further. ::shrugs:: ok, now i'm not sure whre i'm going with this. i just felt a need to respond.

i like the idea about both sides getting malicious and bloody. it's true you don't see a whole lot of that going on...::goes off to think about the story she's writing::

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[info]onyxflame
2006-02-27 05:23 am UTC (link)
I know what you mean. And even when you realize it's a prejudice, sometimes that doesn't help on a gut-reaction level.

I've grown up in a mostly white town, and have an odd reason for being leery of dating a black man.

Not having known any black people closely, I sorta have the "wee a black person!" thing going on. So if I ever did date a black man, I'd be afraid that I wasn't really dating him for good and real reasons, but because his skin color was different and therefore cool. Therefore it probably wouldn't be any fairer to him than if I was spewing racial slurs at him.

And the prejudice doesn't have to be just racial either. There's also stupid people, or fat people, or old people. (I've gotten over the old people thing, because my mom is now what I used to call old, and I love her too much to be disdainful. I wish I could get over the other ones so easy.)

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[info]marumae
2004-08-24 08:39 pm UTC (link)
This rant is really helpful, considering I've longed to use the "Redemption" plot line for a while. Yet not turn it into a writhing pit of cliche's. Man, Limyaael-sama where have you been all my life?

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[info]starfishofelves
2004-08-24 08:53 pm UTC (link)
I have a racist protagonist yay. And I don't think I'll have a problem keeping him that way. It's how he was raised, and I doubt he'll live long enough to change his mind.

(That last sentence was physically painful to write, just so you know).

It looks very painful, but it cracked me up.

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[info]starfishofelves
2004-08-24 08:55 pm UTC (link)
...And I didn't close the tags. Sorry.

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[info]cygna_hime
2004-08-25 05:16 am UTC (link)
1--I hate prejudiced characters who oh-so-miraculously lose all their prejudice in five pages flat. One of my characters is prejudiced against half-elves. And then she meets a half-elf. And by the end of the book she accepts that he's okay, and maybe, just maybe, one or two other half-elves are okay too. Miraculous whosywhatsit? Not a chance. More of the 'six months traveling with this person, along with humans who don't see him as strange, and you may not think he's horribly bad.'

Y'know, the whole 'everyone thinks the heroine is a slut' thing is just about the worst prejudice in writing. If a woman does anything that moves, she's a slut. If a man does, he's omgsosexy!!1! I hate this. No double standarding, stupid writers! *snarls, bites heads off*

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[info]camwyn
2004-08-25 08:29 am UTC (link)
I'm currently working on a fantasy setting of sorts- it's 1870's America, but magic's come surging back with a vengeance. Problem is, west of the Mississippi it obeys primarily Chinese rules. (It has to do with the Transcontinental Railroad.) This has resulted in an awful lot of racial tension, flaring into riots and such in a lot of areas, and will probably eventually set the US at war with China...

Anyway, the American main character is trying to hire someone from China to help him figure out what the hell is going on. He was raised in a fairly enlightened manner- his adoptive mother was a Quaker and had very little time for stupidity- but it's still a tricky thing to get his attitudes right. He doesn't think of himself as a racist, but then again, he's the White guy. It's 1870. He's never been out of the States. How much is he really going to know about the people he's talking to, even if he did get a crash course in Cantonese from the local railroad workers? He'll have unconscious prejudices and language choices that probably won't go over well. And that's damn hard to write, because I'm never sure how much of that will come across as 'the character is a product of his time and upbringing' and how much will come across as 'dumbass White author'...

I have a feeling some vestige of that is what causes authors to write their fantasy heroes as willing to drop racial prejudice (even against nonexistent races) at a moment's notice. They fear being tarred as a Bad Person if the character they're endorsing for story purposes has an attitude Not In Line With Modern Sensibilities.

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[info]criada
2004-08-25 11:14 am UTC (link)
>>I'm currently working on a fantasy setting of sorts- it's 1870's America, but magic's come surging back with a vengeance. Problem is, west of the Mississippi it obeys primarily Chinese rules. (It has to do with the Transcontinental Railroad.)<<
that sounds like an awesome idea. The railroad idea make me think of ley lines. (Once, a friend of mine referred to the Interstate Highways as vast, concrete ley lines.) Depending on how you're working it, it might be neat to look them up and integrate some of the concepts.

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[info]lnhammer
2004-08-26 12:48 pm UTC (link)
<quietly friending>

(Been reading by bookmark long enough I can't remember where I found by you. Possibly [info]oracne's memories? Somewhere.)

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[info]limyaael
2004-08-26 07:29 pm UTC (link)
*friends back*

Glad if you enjoyed them.

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[info]lnhammer
2004-08-27 08:24 am UTC (link)
My fantasy concerns are somewhat different than yours (I write sex farce, and prize romantic comedy over epic — or any other mode) but these are good reminders for all genres. Flaw-scrubbing is universal.

---L.

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[info]vyctori
2004-08-26 03:48 pm UTC (link)
Hi...moderate-length-of-time reader, first-time singer to your dragons (poor things--I haven't the best of voices). A writer friend of mine gave me the link to your LJ, and I've been enjoying your rants ever since. They're very much appreciated and they make me think.

Actually, I'm quite glad you wrote this particular rant. I'm in the process of writing my first novel, and since I haven't been writing for long, I need all the help I can get. I had been planning on making my main character a xenophobe (I can't see medieval peasants being exactly open-minded), but I'd hovered dangerously close to flaw-scrubbing in my mental plotting. So I very much appreciate the tips. Thanks!

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[info]limyaael
2004-08-26 07:29 pm UTC (link)
I'm always glad to hear people say that the rants make them think. Thinking is about 90% of the battle with fantasy stories, I think. Too many mistakes come from people just not realizing, "Hey, wait..."

And ooh, a xenophobic hero who might change realistically! Let me know if it works.

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[info]alex_von_cercek
2004-08-27 09:05 am UTC (link)
What about a hero that realizes that elves are even more rotten than he thought they were?

So he wasn't even nearly xenophobic enough to start with?

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