Limyaael ([info]limyaael) wrote,
@ 2005-08-07 16:05:00
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Current mood: excited
Entry tags:fantasy rants: summer 2005, gender rants, rants on romance

On escaping the arranged marriage trap
This was the one I was dreading, but then, when I thought about it, I realized I had a whole bunch of ideas I’d never considered—not only about why most stories with an arranged marriage in them don’t work for me, but how to make them work.

*examines brain cautiously* Sometimes, I have no idea what’s in there until I write it down.



The “forked stick” is my term for a kind of story that, 99% of the time, turns into one of two equally predictable plotlines. Many stories of sports teams are like that; either the team is going to win or the team is going to lose, usually amid platitudes like “You’re the true winners, because you played fairly!” And most arranged marriage stories either involve the angsty protagonist finding true love with the arranged spouse or running away from the arranged marriage with his/her true love.

Perhaps the problem, though, isn’t the story so much as the failure to question some essential aspects of it.

1) Invoke other emotions besides angst. So, tell me something: In a world with arranged marriages and manipulative family members and cutthroat politics, all of which the protagonist knows about, why do so many stories start with the protagonist finding out about the arranged marriage and treating it as a nasty surprise?

This is the primary forked stick, the one that sets up the predictable patterns of the story and makes them inescapable. It’s difficult for most protagonists to react to nasty surprises with anything but angst. Yet, given the world of the story and the fact that most of them aren’t sheltered or dense or naïve, it doesn’t make sense for this to take them so out of the blue.

One solution would be to start the story in a different place—say, the day of the wedding or the wedding night instead of the announcement of the marriage. Then the protagonist has to do something other than sit around and brood. Or have the hero notice rumblings among his family members about his getting married and use that to prepare a plan to get out of the betrothal. Then you get anger and determination. Or the heroine looks forward to this because it means that she’ll finally be treated as an adult woman and not a maiden, and so there’s a mixture of nervousness and pleasure and curiosity. Or the protagonist has met his/her arranged spouse beforehand and isn’t sure that he/she’s in love, but the wedding preparations have dragged out so long that it’s frankly a relief that the big day is finally approaching.

All of those set up different emotional paths for your character to follow than, “Sniff, sniff, wail, woe is me, I don’t want to get married [to someone I don’t love]!” And variation in emotion is good, lest your character become Broody McBrood.

2) Decide what purpose arranged marriage plays in your society. The most common answer is that it’s part of the background clutter of generic fantasy, in the same way that castles and swords and royalty are. But if you poke at it, then you can get plot points out of it, and decide what purpose it serves, and why your character would be getting married and what the consequences would be if he or she refused.

Political alliance is part of it. But can I ask for clearer definitions of “political alliance,” please? I want to know why Random Noble X is powerful enough that the family head wants him/her to be tied closer to the family. Does he control more land? Does she have powerful magic? Does he carry noble blood that would help solidify a claim to the throne or a particular estate? Is she rich? It can be these reasons, a combination of them, or something else altogether. But if it’s just “political alliance,” unspecified further, then one wonders why only marriage will suffice, and the family head couldn’t make offers to share trade or weapons or information.

Then there’s the old favorite, marrying two people to settle the war between two kingdoms or baronies or countries or [insert your favorite political entity name here]. My favorite (ha!) variation on this is when a single surviving princess gets betrothed to a single surviving prince. Nowhere in most stories of this type is there any grief for the slaughtered family. The princess and/or prince—though it’s far more common from the princess’s side, because, my god, they also make her wear dresses and act dignified, how horrid—is exclusively concerned with the fact that the royal parents are taking away her or his freedom. Whine, whine, bitch, bitch! How horrible, horrible, horrible!

Hey, authors? If there’s been a high number of deaths in a short period of time, and if the royal brat heir in question is really supposed to care about his or her people as well as him- or herself, how about some consideration of what refusing the marriage will do, hmmm? Such as continue the war and turn away aid that might otherwise make the difference between survival and starvation. But, of course, death by famine is nothing compared to having to wear dresses.

As well as showing your characters in the context of arranged marriage, show arranged marriage in the context of its society. Your brilliant, perceptive, politically canny character shouldn’t be taken by surprise when her mother announces that she’ll have to get married someday, and though it’s certainly human and in-character (maybe, see point 3) for her to feel upset about it, one great way to demonstrate her compassion is to show her looking beyond herself for one teensy tiny moment. She won’t be the first character to have an arranged marriage in a society that truly possesses a place for it, and she won’t be the last, either.

3) Question romantic love as the primary attachment. Here’s the point where I come over and say, once again, “Most fantasy worlds are not Western societies on Earth, and neither should they be.”

Play around with kinship structures. Many, many fantasy families are far too nuclear, even when the author makes a point of saying that people live in extended tribes, or clans, or that children are raised close to home and taught to love and obey their parents before anyone their own age. The moment a character falls in love, many of them, even from backgrounds like this, seem all too ready to abandon filial attachments for romantic ones. If the true love asks, they’ll too often run away from the parents who raised them, the siblings who cuddled them and played with them and fought with them, the cousins who protected them and learned with them, the aunts and uncles who advised them and might have been more sympathetic than their parents at times.

Of course, the author might have included another bit of generic fantasy clutter to take care of that: the entire protagonist’s family is horrible and hates her and bullies her, except for the one sibling or cousin who understands her feelings of Troo Wuv and helps her run away.

That’s too easy. Sorry. No points.

In a world where families pull together to survive, the protagonist should have a long and earnest struggle to place romantic love first, or a horrible tearing feeling if she has to choose between her family and her true love, or a damn good reason not to go through either. If a family is brutal and abusive, I bet you that the protagonist isn’t the only one who suffers from it, and her running away might leave siblings or cousins or a parent in the lurch. If her marriage is boring and she falls in love with someone more dashing, then does that mean that she’s ready to leave behind the children she has?

It takes a carefully constructed fantasy world to convincingly contain both arranged marriages meant to connect families and nations and people, and protagonists who can snip all their connections and run away the moment they fall in love, without feeling any guilt or any worries. As I noted above, I believe a large part of their coexistence in many stories doesn’t come from careful background-building, but from not thinking about it. Cheap angst is just that, cheap. I’d much rather plunge into a complicated, twisty story of what it means when someone falls in love and thinks or plays the consequences out, rather than yet another story where the protagonist sheds all responsibility like a child while supposedly feeling an adult emotion. (See point 5).

4) Anyone can react badly to bad treatment. The sole focus in most arranged marriage stories in the protagonist, who is being made to do things that she considers stupid. (Of course she can’t possibly like to wear dresses and don jewels and participate in formal ceremonies! Only shallow people do that! Oh, and the protagonist when she gets married to her true love). Her love interest commiserates with her and offers her unconditional love, her parents are blindly conformist and traditional, any helpful relatives will do anything she wants to help her out, and the arranged spouse, if he doesn’t turn out to be the love interest, stands around and smiles like an automaton, or is blatantly evil and lecherous. (Of course the arranged spouse wants the protagonist, to the point of rape! How could anyone not love and admire her, unless they’re both evil and stupid?)

Have you ever seen a mother trying her best to get a crying or screaming child home? Now imagine that this child is—supposedly, anyway—at adult age, and knows that this marriage is important to more people than just her mother, and has just torn up another formal dress or thrown a screaming temper tantrum in front of an audience. I wouldn’t wonder if said mother starts feeling a bit snappish and put-upon.

Imagine the servants who have to clean up after the messes the protagonist creates to prove her “independence,” in the middle of also preparing the elaborate ceremonies that surround most fantasy weddings. I wouldn’t blame them for having some negative thoughts about her, however sorry they felt. By the end of the wedding preparations, they might be praying for the arranged spouse to marry her and get her the hell away from home.

The arranged spouse came here—perhaps as reluctant as the protagonist was to marry, perhaps grimly determined to do his duty, perhaps eagerly anticipating marriage because he’s heard good things about the protagonist. I don’t think any of those reactions will be improved by the sight of temper tantrums or heated arguments about how the marriage is “so stupid” and the protagonist’s parents obviously don’t love her or care about her happiness. On top of that, she’s not making any effort to hide how unhappy she is with having to marry him in particular. (He’s probably ugly. Who would want to marry an ugly person?) Tell me, why is he evil if he reacts with something other than unmitigated patience and endless statements of “I understand”?
You don’t have to have other people in the story reacting badly to the protagonist, especially if you took point 1 into consideration and have other emotions besides angst in there. But if you do, start thinking about why they’re doing so, instead of deciding “They are evil! And stupid! And doubtless ugly!”

5) If the protagonist really doesn’t want to get married, have him or her do something about it. I love proactive people. I love people who complain for a while, then realize that the universe doesn’t care and get up to take care of their own problems. I love people who have foresight enough to see this day coming—like I said, how the fuck does someone who’s seen arranged marriages happening all around him not know he’ll have to get married someday?—and prepare a means to escape the marriage, or make it more tolerable. I love people who seek out help instead of lying around looking pathetic until someone helps out of pity. Those people are really damn rare in most arranged marriage stories, replaced by Broody McBrood once again. That gets combined with a current of indignation that the protagonist’s parents don’t take one look at her face after the marriage announcement and rescind their decree, or that it takes a while before the powerful magic or god or Destiny shows up and announces that Broody McBrood here can’t get married, she has to save the world.

You really hate this situation, hero/ine? Then do something about it.

Depending on your character, that might range from running away to assassinating her arranged spouse in an untraceable way, from bargaining with his parents to finding a different spouse who’s more appealing to him. Actually, I think stories of this type are far more likely to be fun and unpredictable than the ones where the protagonist just whines about not wanting to get married. But then, I prefer stories that aren’t structured like romance novels, even if they are romantic at heart.

6) Write stories about marriage, and not just love. The one gets equated with the other, often the same way that love gets equated with sex. The author can’t imagine one happening without the other, so reduces everything to a too-simple equation. Yet I’ve known—and I imagine that you have, too—people who had sex without being in love, and people who were in love but didn’t have sex, and people who stayed married without being passionately IN TWOO WUV, and people who got married because they were in love and then divorced when the love withered.

I suppose an author might say, “That’s boring. If I write about love, I have sexual tension and jealousy and love triangles and romantic attachments to play around with. What do I have if I write about arranged marriage as marriage?”

Well, let’s see:

-issues of celebrity and masks and public image—how these two people feel knowing they’re looked on as the solution to a war or a means of cementing an alliance, and that these images may be quite different from who they really are.
-themes of strength, permanence, and, once again, connection—not a bond that one of the pair can just walk away from when they get tired of it.
-slow growth of emotions other than love—respect, strength, trust, absolute faith in one another.
-slow growth of love, for that matter.
-issues of entrapment, the dark side of the permanence issue—if the marriage is unhappy, show the ways in which it might be unhappy other than just simply being arranged.
-ideas of family, especially children. If very few fantasy protagonists are married, even fewer have children. Parents are rarely protagonists, and more like punching bags.
-how marriage functions in that particular society. How much time is a couple at this level expected to spend with each other? Does a mother raise her own children? Do they have separate bedrooms or a single one? Do they set up a regular schedule for having sex? Do they turn a blind eye to each other’s lovers, and what would make them stop turning a blind eye?
-issues of honor and duty. They’re unfashionable compared to issues of individualism and freedom, as I noted in the rant on duty-bound protagonists. But that doesn’t mean they aren’t interesting, and for many fantasy worlds, they would make much more sense than the continual focus on mavericks.



Why was I scared of that again?




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[info]fadethecat
2005-08-07 08:52 pm UTC (link)
I haven't actually seen the arranged marriage plot often. The one that springs to mind, actually, didn't even have it as a major part of the plot (what with the hero's family killed off before the book starts, forcing her to flee for her life). I liked the approach there, though. She'd always expected to be in an arranged marriage eventually, found the idea tedious and frustrating, but it was just one of those things one did. An unpleasant fact of life. A far more practical approach to it than most protagonists seem to take.

The other place I've seen it, the objection is less to the idea of arranged marriage as to the (much older, not very nice) person she'd have to marry. The author neatly wraps this up by letting the unpleasant prospective husband die off, and his far more pleasant son carry through with the contract by marrying the protagonist in his father's place. This is a bit of a cop-out, but I mind this less in a children's book than I would in some other places.

The nicely done bit, though, is that the protagonist, being an idealistic young woman, fully intends to refuse this marriage as hard as she can. Is sent a pouch of coins by the man she's engaged to, and refuses to spend them. But when she needs the money to save someone else, and uses it for that purpose... she considers that to mean she's now accepted his gift and given her word, and will therefore go through with the marriage no matter how much she hates him. An honorable touch in what could have just been a Spunky Protagonist story otherwise.

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[info]xanath
2005-08-07 09:15 pm UTC (link)
I remember that. :) Catherine Called Birdy has an honored place on my shelf.

I don't recall such an imaginative way out of an arranged marriage in adult fantasy fiction, though. ::sigh:: But thanks to Limyaael, I may finally have some ideas.

--Kris

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(no subject) - [info]fadethecat, 2005-08-07 09:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]goldjadeocean, 2005-08-07 11:16 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]fadethecat, 2005-08-07 11:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chocolatepot, 2005-08-07 11:30 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]galenfea, 2008-06-16 07:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]goldjadeocean, 2005-08-07 11:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chocolatepot, 2005-08-07 11:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2005-08-09 01:59 am UTC

[info]tirae
2005-08-07 09:03 pm UTC (link)
Falls right into my dormant story outline! It's also interesting to see how the protagonist deals with things if her parents were also arranged to be married.

I also added a nice twist that the betrothed sincerely wants to be the lady's friend, even with all the political and emotional complications surrounding them.

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[info]zekk_skywalk
2005-08-07 09:16 pm UTC (link)
*copies this one down, then decides to read it while comparing to his arrange-marriage-romance-fantasy-story*

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[info]lnhammer
2005-08-07 09:36 pm UTC (link)
I'm kinda ducking this issue a bit in my mess-in-progress. In her case, after her previous betrothed died before they were married (an arrangement she hadn't objected to, btw, because in her class, marriages are arranged) after which her father was, ah, too busy to arrange another plus found her too useful -- and now, as an heiress, she has several very good reasons to avoid marriage, a least for a while. In his case, though, I don't have a convincing reason for him to have not married yet, just a weak political one.

In both cases, they'll be surprised when they fall in love -- that sort of passion's for the game of courtly love, not anything as important as marriage.

But, to all of your rant, yes. I had the stupidity of not realizing that off course your marriage will be arranged, when that's the norm for your class and place. And what families will sometimes put up with regarding this.

---L.

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[info]zeborahnz
2005-08-08 09:46 am UTC (link)
In his case, though, I don't have a convincing reason for him to have not married yet, just a weak political one.

Guys don't have to get married straight away, girls can wait. OTOH, girls *must* get married *right now*, otherwise they'll turn old and ugly. Or something.

If that's not the case in your world, you can always come up with other reasons; they don't need to be terribly good ones. Maybe they just haven't found a rich enough heiress for him yet. Maybe he was about to get married to a rich heiress but then a feud broke out between the families. Or complications from an old feud led to the someone asking their lover to bribe the Cardinal to convince the queen to browbeat the kind into forbidding the pending marriage with the rich heiress. Or he could just be a younger son and his older brother needs to be married off first. Or the rich heiress died/had a shotgun wedding to someone else/went into a nunnery.

Reading French history (or probably any history; and French fiction-of-the-time, too) is terribly instructive....

A propos of which, I don't see a lot of fantasy acknowledging that when the princess and the prince get married in order to cement a treaty between their two countries, chances are that the resulting peace won't last much longer than a few years, and the scheming in preparation for the next war is not even going to pause for the honeymoon.

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(no subject) - [info]l_clausewitz, 2005-08-08 11:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tamerterra, 2005-08-08 12:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lnhammer, 2005-08-08 02:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dancingwriter, 2005-08-08 04:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2005-08-09 02:02 am UTC

[info]baeraad
2005-08-07 10:11 pm UTC (link)
Well ranted. :) You're kind of making me want to have my heroine's brother marry her off to some wealthy guy, just to see if I could do a decent job of writing it.

Actually... that would serve her right for offhandedly promising certain people a fortune out of the family treasury if they helped her against the bad guys, come to think of it. Her brother might decide that if she's going to be that free with the family funds, she should darn well start contributing to them, or at least getting a husband that can. That might be a fun subplot for the second book - her trying to find a way to repay that, ahem, loan before the wedding so that her brother might agree to call said wedding off.

Okay, that's not really in keeping with the idea of making the best of an arranged marriage. But hey, at least it's not angsting... and having it be the result of her own actions does rather invalidate the whole "my family is being unfair to me" thing... =]

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[info]limyaael
2005-08-09 02:04 am UTC (link)
Hey, if it's funny, I would count it as better than angst no matter the plot. And it would help if the story either treated her arranged spouse gently, or didn't bring him on at all. One thing that really sets my teeth on edge, as I mentioned in the rant, is when the arranged spouse is shown as being a rapist or horrible and evil.

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[info]janni
2005-08-07 10:27 pm UTC (link)
Well said, all of it.

I went through an entire novel I was working on with my protagonist slowly falling in love with someone (from another world) whom she didn't know was already engaged to his cousin. Because the feelings expressed were pretty mutual, I was really, really startled when, at the end of the book, the guy in question decided to honor his commitment to his betrothed.

Turns out that just because he didn't love his cousin didn't mean he didn't care for her--they'd grown up together, after all--and more, he and his betrothed both actually, like, cared about their kingdom and the alliance the marriage represented.

Sometimes, one can choose duty, and not wind up wretchedly unhappy because of it.

Forced me to make a major shift in how I looked at arranged marriage, that story did. And made me realize that of course there's a middle ground between passionate romance and utter hatred, and that just because arranged marriages are built on something other than love, doesn't mean they can't work, and that the people in them can't even find some measure of happiness.

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[info]frenchpony
2005-08-07 10:33 pm UTC (link)
1) Invoke other emotions besides angst.

William "Romeo and Juliet" Shakespeare, we're looking at you here.

Actually, I think there's your answer right there. Fourteen-year-olds get assigned to read R+J in ninth grade, because English teachers figure that the only way to shepherd the hormonally challenged through the Bard would be to pick the comedy that features two hormonally challenged teenagers trying their durndest to make it into a tragedy.

Twu Wuv, a twagic heroine, a dashing hero, an arranged marriage to a guy whose only crime is to be duller than . . . a very dull thing and be named after the capital of France (I always thought Count Paris got a raw deal), lots and lots and lots of angst in iambic pentameter with enough imagery to keep the average high-school English teacher happy. . . so the kiddies write their fantasies that way.

I once read a wonderful analysis of R+J by Isaac Asimov. Asimov's theory was that the feud between the Montagues and the Capulets was basically over, that both families were looking for a way to end it honorably, and only three people had interest in keeping it going: Tybalt, because he's seventeen and testosterone-poisoned; Juliet, because she's fourteen and wants drama in her life; and Romeo, because he's seventeen and wants Juliet to have the drama that she wants in her life. Asimov figured that if Juliet had simply suggested marriage to Romeo to her father, Dad Capulet would have jumped at the chance to patch up the feud. But Juliet figured that Romantic Love Denied ("my only love, sprung from my only hate") was much more dramatic, and ended up turning what could have been a perfectly nice comedy into the story of Emo McAngstypants and Worrywart Kvetchstein.

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[info]athelyna
2005-08-08 12:56 am UTC (link)
Quickest way to kill any idea that forbidden love and double suicide is romantic is to follow up R+J with Ethan Frome. Already married guy, with a nasty, hypochrodriac shrew of a wife falls in love with his young female relative. They fall in love, but he's married, so they decide to kill themselves by running their sled into a tree. She's paralyzed, and he's crippled. My 10th grade american lit class read it, and I could never look at R+J in the same way again. (That I realized Juliet was 14, and that they knew each other for 3 days before deciding to kill themselves)

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(no subject) - [info]frenchpony, 2005-08-08 03:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]saadiira, 2005-08-08 01:22 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]saadiira, 2005-08-08 01:23 pm UTC

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(no subject) - [info]otakukeith, 2005-08-08 05:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2005-08-09 02:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]frenchpony, 2005-08-09 02:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]korimyr12, 2005-11-10 12:09 am UTC

[info]reuisu
2005-08-07 10:39 pm UTC (link)
Ahh, Hamlet...

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Who?
[info]bardessc
2005-08-08 06:17 am UTC (link)
Oh, yeah, the Angsty Protagonist of Angsty Protagonists. That dude who was too busy angsting and harrassing his girlfriend to get up off his butt and DO SOMETHING!!!
Yeah, I remember now...

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(no subject) - [info]l_clausewitz, 2005-08-08 11:57 am UTC

[info]wolfychan
2005-08-07 11:50 pm UTC (link)
A-freakin-men about there being other priorities beyond romantic love. Choosing between a lover and a family is something people have to deal with even in the modern world--and it's not unusual or immoral to decide that your first loyalty is with your family. Being married without love sucks a little bit (or if you culturally expect it, not at all); being poor, without friends or family, and outcast sucks a whole lot.

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[info]limyaael
2005-08-09 02:06 am UTC (link)
Amen in turn. And if the author then decides that povery puts a strain on the newfound marriage or love affair...well, it wouldn't be the first time.

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[info]asciiskull
2005-08-08 12:46 am UTC (link)
What about a scheming girl who's been pulling strings to get a powerful husband 'arranged' for her, and then her parents proudly annouce that they've found her a nice fellow who blah-blah-blah but he's not all that wealthy or powerful, thus setting her on a quest to have the poor chump removed from the running?

Perhaps her parents were thrown together against their will, hate each other, and the only thing they can agree on is that they want a nice, easy going mate for their child?

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[info]saadiira
2005-08-08 01:24 pm UTC (link)
I would love to see this done. Absolutely love it.

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(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2005-08-09 02:08 am UTC

[info]goldjadeocean
2005-08-08 02:08 am UTC (link)
There's this point in the sequel to my present novel where the heroine looks at her love interest and goes, "You know, if I get married to someone rich, powerful, old, and impotent, I'm pretty sure I'll still be allowed to sleep with you."

Why is adultery never an option?

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[info]hieronymousb
2005-08-08 02:49 am UTC (link)
Haha, well, there's always The Scarlet Letter...

...but I'm not sure if such lofty consequences count as being a viable "option"

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(no subject) - [info]youraugustine, 2005-08-08 03:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]goldjadeocean, 2005-08-08 03:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]youraugustine, 2005-08-08 03:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]goldjadeocean, 2005-08-08 04:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tiferet, 2005-08-08 03:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]goldjadeocean, 2005-08-08 03:40 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]peacockharpy, 2005-08-08 04:27 am UTC
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(no subject) - [info]goldjadeocean, 2005-08-08 11:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]blunder_buss, 2005-08-10 01:44 pm UTC

[info]hieronymousb
2005-08-08 02:47 am UTC (link)
I've seen this issue before in amateur fantasy, and it tends to be handled stupidly. I should direct some of those authors to this rant. Arranged marriage, like royal parents, tends to be portrayed as "evil" and cruel. It's ironic that so many people have picked up this bad habit by reading Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet, when it's fairly apparent to me that Shakespeare intended R&J to be a story of parental neglect, NOT so much a love story. Consider that at the end of the play, there is a note to the parents, which basically says "Parents, this shit is pathetic. Don't let your kids get into this kind of shit." I've heard, and I'm pretty sure that this is true--that Shakespeare intended the story to be a warning to parents, and R&J were not truly so "in love" as people think. Consider this, why else would Shakespeare have Romeo lusting after Rosaline in the beginning, if not to demonstrate that R was in fact a pimp? In most modern "true wuv" stories, you don't see the protagonist lusting over another girl in the beginning. No, no, seems to me like Shakespeare was saying Romeo was a man-whore, but people seem to miss that, as they're so eager to buy into the corny love tale. Bah. R&J=hormonal teenagers.

But yeah, arranged marriage is never handled with any complexity. It's always so myopic, about nothing more than the heroine wanting out and (usually) running away. The heroine can never see beyond her own selfish reasons. Why should we root for a heroine like this, is what I want to know?

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[info]otakukeith
2005-08-08 06:12 pm UTC (link)
The interpretation I was taught in school was that the early acts of the play showcase all sorts of different kinds of love (like the Montague serving-men boasting about their sexual prowess, Juliet's mother extolling the virtues of proper and seemly married life, the Nurse spouting innuendoes and remarks about motherhood, and Romeo's emo whining about Rosaline), and Romeo and Juliet's love is TWU WUV. *shrug* Make of it what you will.

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[info]dialogue
2005-08-08 04:09 am UTC (link)
I've been dealing with this in a project I'm working on, where a "princess" (she's the grand-niece of the constitutional monarch) in a more progressive nation jumps at the chance of a political marriage to a prince of a less-progressive nation because they need the aid from the prince's nation. Only after she's made a committment to it does she start to think of what she's giving up, but she tries to keep in mind how important it is to her homeland. Her new husband already has an illegitimate son and his own issues to deal with. She ends up being drawn into the decadent court lifestyle and having an affair before she and her husband come to an understanding.

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[info]silenceleigh
2005-08-08 04:40 am UTC (link)
The point is well-made that in societies that have arranged marriages, they're looked on as the most normal thing in the world. If you're expecting your entire life to be married off when you hit puberty, why would you be surprised when it actually happens...especially when you've never seen anyone have a non-arranged marriage?

My theory is that arranged marriages can run the gamut from good to bad, just as non-arranged marriages do. "Good" and "bad" however, are culturally determined. Perhaps romantic love is regarded as a sort of madness that has no place in the home and hearth, and perhaps husbands and wives are expected to respect each other but not necessarily love each other. And, of course, there could be societies where non-arranged marriages are reserved for the lower classes (or for slaves) and so a daughter or son of the nobility who wanted to find their own partner would have to marry out of their own class...which wouldn't be nearly as easy as it looks at first blush.

Then you have Roman society, where first marriages were always arranged, divorce and remarriage at the behest of one's family was common, and serial monogamy was the norm.

I think a lot of the cliched things that happen with arranged marriages in fantasy is an inability to comprehend being happy with someone who's been picked out for you. But, really. In a lot of ways, it's saner than how we go about picking marriage partners--dating and discarding a few (or many) people before you pick one to marry. There's a lot of potential for tragedy there (in the case of, say, one party being homosexual), but a lot of potential for joy, especially if you've been raised to believe that one's elders are much wiser than you and will pick the best husband or wife they can find for you.

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[info]telerib
2005-08-08 11:00 am UTC (link)
Seconded. One of my good friends from college - born in India, came to the USA when she was one year old - tried dating and is now looking forward to her arranged marriage. This is a very intelligent young woman with her MD and currently doing her residency.

Her parents love her very much and want her to be happy, so they're looking for nice guys. She's involved in the process and has veto power. The guys (and my friend) have no interest in being stuck in a bad marriage, so the chaperoned dates/encounters are very open and honest. I think after about six meetings, everyone involved is supposed to have made up their minds about whether or not the marriage will proceed.

There are more ways to even have arranged marriages than 'OMG teh horror' of the political alliance.

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(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2005-08-09 02:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]baeraad, 2005-08-10 09:38 am UTC

[info]blunder_buss
2005-08-08 05:16 am UTC (link)
Woah, number 4 alone just made me want to slap that girl silly. Besides, if it IS medieval fantasy, wouldn't there be a form of social pressure for the girl to be a good little wife? Or is the 'firey heroine' immune to that?

Or, what about some version of a shotgun wedding? You don't want to get married? Okay. We'll send you off to a nunnery or whatever the equivilant of one. Oh, you DO want to be married now, fancy that.

Seriously though, I'd like to see an arranged marriage that wasn't all about OMG NO TWU LUV WOE. If two people get married for political reasons, then there'd be possible diplomatic crises, she'll be a target for possible terrorists, what would happen if a war broke out, what if she got kidnapped and held for ransom, what if a revolution started, yadda yadda. I'd rather see THAT.

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[info]woodburner
2005-08-08 06:45 am UTC (link)
-ideas of family, especially children. If very few fantasy protagonists are married, even fewer have children. Parents are rarely protagonists, and more like punching bags.

...You get the feeling this is some kind of manifestation of a mass psychological trend? xD

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[info]lyorn
2005-08-08 04:05 pm UTC (link)
I think it's more that fairy tales end with the wedding. :-)

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(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2005-08-09 02:11 am UTC

[info]slobbit
2005-08-08 10:46 am UTC (link)
Hi there, I came to you via [info]buymeaclue, and this is such a good rant, I felt obligated to friend.

Anyway, I write in 1200's Japan, or someplace like it, where arranged marriages and casual extramarital sex are both the norm. There's enough politics and war going on that I don't need to look for romance woes to supply conflict. Though I do have a twist, which destabilizes the political structure of the government and results in a civil war.

Politics are fun.

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[info]l_clausewitz
2005-08-08 11:20 am UTC (link)
Hoh. And I thought you would have rifled through my f-list and found these rants long ago.

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(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2005-08-09 02:12 am UTC

[info]l_clausewitz
2005-08-08 11:13 am UTC (link)
#3 and #6, of course, are my favorites. I was upset enough to create a character who would really marry anyone, even a toad, rather than being jeered at for being an old bachelor. And he's just nineteen.

He got a woman instead of a toad, of course. His family wasn't crazy enough to really marry him to a real toad. Think of what the neighbors would say if they did!

And actually I sort of fail to understand why authors really like to resort to girls like the example in #4. Even if they didn't like dresses, wouldn't they have the tact to wear one in public? The formal charges that led to the burning of Joan of Arc at the stake were not about treason against the English king or whatever, but about her cross-dressing habits.

[info]frenchpony has mentioned earlier that this rant reminds many of the influence of Romeo and Juliet. Speaking of Shakespearean love tragedies, however, I never really liked R&J as much as I liked Othello. At least with Othello, we can twist the "moral" in relation with this rant and say that while in an arranged marriage each party could afford to keep an indifferent eye at the other's "side occupations," in a marriage based on love any breach of fidelity is bound to end in tragedy. We don't have to ask which one is going to last longer on average. *evil grin*

Still, my favorite romance of all times is Beatrice and Benedick in Much Ado About Nothing. They might revile each other with sarcastic wit, but their bickering never descended into the angsty quarrels tah thas become so overused in today's fiction.

That's digressing. Actually, I was thinking about a common predicament in an arranged marriage where one party has discovered that the other commits adultery with another. Instead of descending into anger and angst or divorce or such, why wouldn't the first party be motivated to conceal the fact instead? After all, cracking down on the adultery would probably mean exposing it to the public, and wouldn't that bring shame upon both of their families? And there's more, of course. Think of the first party blackmailing the family of the second.

Your mention of children reminded me of Poul Anderson's essay On Thud And Blunder, where he mentioned that fantasy heroines are often sexually active but, suspiciously, never got pregnant because of it. Not that they ever menstruated....

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[info]londonkds
2005-08-08 12:33 pm UTC (link)
Hmmm. It's a bit different from a UK point of view, because we have a quite big South Asian community and a constant social background of arguments over arranged marriage in South Asian families and feminism versus racial tolerance. It's difficult for a British writer to treat araanged marriage dispassionately in that context.

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[info]limyaael
2005-08-09 02:12 am UTC (link)
True. But most of the fantasy I've seen whining about arranged marriage in this fashion isn't by Britons. :)

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[info]evilprodigy
2005-08-08 12:46 pm UTC (link)
Right on. I especially agree with the bit about invoking other emotions besides angst -- it always baffles me how so many fantasy protagonists react to arranged marriage as if they're 21st-century Westerners transported into the society and suddenly forced to conform to its customs. Actually, I've got a friend in her late teens who is engaged to a man her parents chose, since that's what's expected in her culture -- and she's very nonchalant about it.

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[info]otakukeith
2005-08-08 06:17 pm UTC (link)
Right on. I especially agree with the bit about invoking other emotions besides angst -- it always baffles me how so many fantasy protagonists react to everything as if they're 21st-century Westerners transported into the society and suddenly forced to conform to its customs.

Fixed it for you. ;-)

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[info]saadiira
2005-08-08 01:30 pm UTC (link)
I like this rant. I like this rant a great deal.

Now, the question came up, where this terrible trend when it comes to arranged marriages has come from, and I probably have an explanation for that: Not just Romeo and Juliet, but romance novels in general. It's a standard plot twist in those. Forced marriage/arranged marriage, runs off and finds twu wuv, or is rescued/abducted by same, or else comes to discover that hubby is twu wuv, after that hot night of passionate sex...that doesn't repeat again until page 400 or so.

Unfortunately, the trend has come over, and infested fantasy.

Far more interesting, of course, to go at it from totally different directions, such as the loyalty ones suggested, or, even better..hehe...a bit of calculation and maybe vengeance on the part of that female...

Affairs and real politicking are also very nice.

-Dira-

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[info]alexmegami
2005-08-08 03:24 pm UTC (link)
Alright, as a thought: what's your view about refusing arranged marriages that are attempts to heal rifts - because of the (probably correct) view that it wouldn't stop the warring, just redirect it?

Basically, Woman of Noble Blood A is supposed to be married off to Man of Noble Blood B, because their states have been warring for many years and everyone is basically tired of it (and they're starting to run out of resources, including those of the human sort).

Woman, however, is not unversed in history and politics, and is basically saying to her parents, "but, look, they'll wait two, maybe three years tops, and then they'll start warring with some other state, and our peasants/knights/warriors/whatever will still be dying. THIS IS A BAD IDEA."

Would that be an interesting enough idea to expand upon?

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[info]limyaael
2005-08-09 02:14 am UTC (link)
Possibly. Of course, then I would want the heroine to have another solution. As I mentioned, I love proactive people, and someone who says, "Well, I'm going to take away this solution that might buy us two or three years of peace and offer nothing in its place" would annoy me nearly as much as someon who wanted to get out of the marriage on nothing but personal whim. If she cares about her country's fate enough to have looked ahead and seen what will happen if she marries the prince, I expect her to be invested in its future beyond that.

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[info]anna_wing
2005-08-08 03:25 pm UTC (link)
I've been reading your archives and it has been so useful. Thank you very much. May I friend you? Of your recent essays I've most liked the one on non-human characters, mostly because I am writing Tolkien fanfiction, and I've found that the best way for me is to treat elves, for instance, in a science fiction-like way,as a society of aliens, with Arthur-Clarke-style technology that is indistinguishable from magic.

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[info]limyaael
2005-08-09 02:14 am UTC (link)
Sure, you can friend me; I have a pretty open policy about that.

And that's an interesting way to write Elves. The only Tolkien fanfic I wrote was a parody, so I didn't get into that, but I've mostly seen them handled with breatless twee mysticism that didn't work for me.

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(no subject) - [info]anna_wing, 2005-08-09 02:51 pm UTC

[info]cygna_hime
2005-08-08 10:04 pm UTC (link)
I am suddenly reminded exactly why I want to continue a certain story--because it has an arranged royal marriage that is perfectly happy but not in OMGTwuWuv, thank you very much. Must work on that.

I hate Arranged Marriage plots, and love these suggestions for making them interesting.

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[info]medievallass
2005-08-09 09:15 am UTC (link)
Hi'a Limyaael,

My name is Hayley, I just wanted to let you know that I have really been enjoying your rants. A friend of mine, alegwyni recommended your insightful writing advice. I have been working on a novel of the past seven years and I am always looking for advice,classes to attend,and books to read, to become a better writer. It's been great fun to read your rants.

I thought I would let you know that I'll be friending you, as you said you perfer to be told. Feel free to friend me back if you would like. I post very little of my writing, being a little on the protective side with it. But I do have some poems friend locked under my memories entries. I have not written a fantasy story yet, I write mostly historical fiction. Not having experience with writing fantasy I still find your rants to be great advice and could work for lots of genres. Thanks for sharing these they're totally cool ^_^.

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