Limyaael ([info]limyaael) wrote,
@ 2005-09-07 19:21:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend  Next Entry
Current mood: energetic
Entry tags:fantasy rants: summer 2005, rants on nonhumans

Rant on non-angsty werewolves
I could write a rant about how boring angst is and how much prettier joy is, but instead I choose to write about non-angsty werewolves.

Because I can.



1) Make them happy about living as wolves. Werewolves are not, after all, either completely normal, non-shape-shifting humans, or wolves who are not intelligent. That is, indeed, the whole point. But they spend most of their time in many stories moaning about not being one or the other, which rather misses the point. (See also point 2, which is tired of being ignored and will now beat angsty-werewolf-authors with a large pointy stick. *clears out of the way*).

Consider this: Many humans admire animals. Beauty, speed, strength, grace, power—there’s even a variety of psychological theories saying that we get freaked out by certain animals, such as snakes, and admire others, such as horses, because of the way they move, of all things. Take that admiration and apply it to wolves. Now you’re cooking with charcoal.

Relatively little body-centered description comes through in most werewolf stories; indeed, I’ve read authors who spend more time describing the full moon than they do the sensation of running on four legs, or how a werewolf judges which prey animal is weak and which isn’t, or what it feels like, instead of sounds like, to howl. Maybe you assume that you can’t describe that. Piffle. Fantasy is supposed to include plenty of things that you’ll never experience. Write it anyway. Then write it again, until you’re good at it.

Wolves are not inherently admirable animals, and they may seem inherently evil, depending on the viewpoint of the human culture involved. But they can seem inherently admirable, too. Nothing says they can’t. The likelihood becomes even stronger when the person doing the admiring is not one who has to fight wolves for her livelihood, such as a farmer. Of course, then you have the possibilities of someone who does fear them, and has to confront, not becoming a monster, but fighting through to the harder realization: that she’s not a monster at all just because she’s changed from an ordinary human being.

Wow.

Now I want to write one.

2) Shapeshifting can lead to themes of transgression, in-betweenness, crossing boundaries. It often doesn’t. Why? Because the werewolf spends the entire story moping about not being human—this is angst of the “Woe! I am a monster!” variety—or “embracing the wolf” and sneering about how much better she is than those dirty, nasty humans who pollute the environment.

And sure, the theme of being between two worlds can lead authors to write characters who really, really hate being stuck there, and who end up making a choice. Why there are so few characters who are flexible and adaptable enough to accept their stuckness, to be both instead of either/or, baffles me.

It’s not as though themes of peace and reconciliation are really less common than ones of conflict. (They show up at different places in the story, maybe, usually at the end, but they’re not less common). Perhaps they are harder to write, because many authors end the story once they’re introduced, rather than working with them in the main plot? Maybe.

But non-angsty werewolves should not brood on their differences from both species, because that way lies angst. Let them exult in their differences, in how humans can’t change shape and run nine miles an hour for hours on end, or in how wolves can’t change shape and walk into a grocery store to buy ice cream. Or, if both species persist in rejecting them, as many authors choose to show—because the werewolves are so often helpless victims—then let them form their own communities that don’t care about the other species’ opinions. Let a few generations pass, and such communities would probably produce werewolves who’ve never known anything other than acceptance and confidence in who they are, and react to rejection from “their parent species” with the appropriate snorts of scorn.

There’s something deep and rich here, something that saddens me when authors turn their backs and refuse to explore it. I don’t mind richly-done conflicts with richly-drawn antagonists and heroes, but helpless suffering werewolves, snapped at by wolves because they smell wrong and hated by humans for something they can’t help, aren’t it.

3) “Oh, the full moon controls me.” “So?” If you want to stick to the full moon mythology, then I respect that decision (even as part of me is really, really hoping that the wolves get described more often than the moon). But there is no reason for moon angst, wherein the werewolf watches fearfully out the windows and moans when the moon crests the horizon. Moon angst is infinitely more annoying than the most crudely-described PMS. PMS is at least, often, bitchy anger. Moon angst is—well, look at the second word.

People, people, people. If you assume that the moon’s cycle in your world is the same as Earth’s, or if you’re writing urban fantasy, and that the werewolf is taken out of commission three nights in a row while the full moon shines, then that’s still—*does math*—only 39 days out of 365 or 366 days a year.

*deep breath*

What the hell is the werewolf doing those other 326 or 327 days a year? You’d think all the angsting would chafe.

Yes, becoming a werewolf with no control over your body, regular as clockwork, would suck. But it’s still a small portion of the character’s whole life, and the side effects on days when the moon isn’t full are usually minor (to avoid revealing the secret. See point 4 for what I think about that). There are characters who can’t at all escape their conditions, such as those with chronic illnesses or missing limbs, and they often do better than healthy, able-bodied werewolves who only have to take precautions 39 times a year. Fantasy women who menstruate seven days every month, on a less predictable cycle than the full moon’s coming, do better (when the authors bother to mention the menstrual cycle, of course).

I see no reason for sitting around and doing all the angsting. It’s silly.

4) There is life after someone finds out you’re a werewolf. The most tiresome—not bothersome, because that’s the angst, but tiresome—part of an angsty-werewolf story for me is often the lengths to which the werewolf goes to keep the secret from anyone else. It doesn’t work from either viewpoint. If you’re writing from the shapeshifter’s viewpoint, then the audience already knows, and the other characters begin to seem idiotic for not figuring it out. If you’re writing from another character’s viewpoint, you still have a chance of making them look like an idiot, because there’s very, very little in the way of clues that will not either give away the secret at once to a werewolf-savvy audience or be so obscure as to make the secret a bolt from the blue.

And then there’s the fact that the need to keep this “problem” a secret is usually because of a Random Angst Factor, such as all humans in the world hating werewolves for being ravening monsters when they are not, in fact, ravening monsters.

So explode the secret at once. And then write about what happens after.

What? What is this, you say? Do that? And give the whole game away?

Well, yes. As I think I’ve shown, it’s not really that much of a game.

Have a werewolf trust his lover enough to confess his secret. Have a werewolf befriend someone who’s shown that she can look past boundaries and the skin, and have that friend stay true instead of crying out in horror and running off—since that cues the angst. Have a relationship between a werewolf and a human, or a werewolf and a wolf, that doesn’t rest on one betraying the other, where the difference is open and accepted.

Secrets will get you into trouble, in many stories, since so often there’s not a good reason for either keeping or revealing them. And in this case, it’s a particularly clichéd secret. Dare the cliché. Have the werewolf walk out in the sunlight, or moonlight as the case may be, and smile at everybody, and accept what comes. It’s a lot harder to angst when you’re smiling.

5) Show what werewolves define themselves by. This is related to point 2, but as point 2 is still up there beating authors with the large pointy stick, I can ramble on about this some more.

Werewolves get defined in many stories by what they can’t do: can’t resist the change at full moon, can’t wear or be around silver, can’t tell normal humans what they are, can’t run with a normal wolf pack, can’t lead any semblance of a normal life. It’s tiring. And, once again, it’s conducive to angst. Thinking about what restrains us and stands in our way—as opposed to, you know, doing something about it—usually is.

So, what do werewolves do? Do they wear gold, instead of silver? Do they go dancing when they’re wolves and run around on all fours as humans, to prove that they can? Do they play limbo, with two wolves holding the stick in their teeth and people trying to go as low as they can in either form, until everybody explodes in laughter or yips and the game is over? Do they play chicken with normal wolves, until the normal wolves lay back their ears in confusion and run away?

Their cultures can be a mishmash, unique—as strongly suggested by point 2—or just the mingled normal lives of mingled normal people, whose strongest similarity is that they happen to change shape once a month, or all the time.

6) Can we get rid of the “lone wolf” stereotype, please? Yes, there are lone wolves. They’re usually older cubs, especially males, who have left the pack in order to seek out a mate and territory elsewhere, since, as long as they remain under the dominion of an alpha pair, their breeding is controlled and they won’t have pups. So they’re lone wolves until they gather or join a pack, and only until then. And even then, they don’t automatically travel alone; it’s not unheard of for siblings of the same age to depart a pack together, and travel in company for a time, or even form the kernel of a new pack.

I’m also sure that I don’t need to tell you that humans are social creatures, and that many interesting stories can be written with them behaving that way. Loner humans are often regarded suspiciously in fantasy. They don’t need to be. On the other hand, I don’t think that loners treated always as recipients of horrible, unfair judgment are good, either, because—yes, here comes the angst again! Record time!

So why would werewolves, with both their shapes being social creatures, spend so much of their time brooding and alone?

*Limyaael replays sentence*

Oh, yes, I forgot. There’s that brooding thing that so many authors believe is so attractive again. Arggh. If you have a werewolf who’s not mistreated, or has been mistreated but has recovered from and is not angsty about it, then you don’t have to write lone wolves. It would make more sense not to, and to show them acting in concert, whether it’s with others of their kind, or with others of one of the “parent” species, or even with shapeshifters of different kinds. (What about a werewolf who lives with a family of werecoyotes?)

Society is not always harsh and cruel. There are plenty, both humans and wolves, who travel in it and revel in it. And there could be more werewolves who do the same.



See? Aren’t smiling werewolves pretty?




Page 1 of 3
<<[1] [2] [3] >>

(131 comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]inarticulate
2005-09-07 11:29 pm UTC (link)
Oh my god, THANK YOU.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]limyaael
2005-09-09 11:49 pm UTC (link)
*grin* You're welcome. I see this has touched a chord with a lot of people.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]autumnstar1
2005-09-07 11:35 pm UTC (link)
One of the few authors who writes werewolves that I actually like is Kelley Armstrong The two main werewolf books are Bitten and Stolen, with Broken coming out in 2006. True, she does have a bit of angst, but overall, she's written the best wolf/human cross I've ever read.
Plus her werewolves have to change every week or so, instead of only at the full moon.

It's hard to find shape-shifer books that I don't want to chuck across the room.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]limyaael
2005-09-09 11:50 pm UTC (link)
I've heard of Armstrong, but I read one description of what I think was one of her books that made me shy off. Is she the one who writes all male werewolves with the exception of one female?

And I know exactly what you mean. There are so many tired tropes that have been done to death, and, like vampires, so many authors seem to think that they don't need to do anything new- that somehow, just writing about a werewolf is enough.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]cinnamonical
2005-09-07 11:44 pm UTC (link)
Whoah! Three rants in a row that pertain to things I'm writing/eventually will write! I have no experience whatsoever with writing shapeshifters, but I'm planning to do so for this year's NaNoWriMo and this'll give me a heads-up. Kudos to you!

Also, based on your recommendations I've been seeing throughout your LJ, I picked up Brust's "The Book of Taltos" at B&N. I didn't know it was in the middle of the series, though, I just recognized Brust's name at the bookstore and went "Oh, hey, that smart-writer-person on my LJ talks about him!" So, uh...yeah. Sora is happy with a new book.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]limyaael
2005-09-09 11:51 pm UTC (link)
*grin* Technically, you could read the "Taltos" part of the The Book of Taltos, since it's chronologically the first book in the series. But it might make more sense to wait until you can get hold of The Book of Jhereg, which contains the first three published books in the series, as well as the one that "Phoenix," the second part of The Book of Taltos, is a direct sequel to.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]donnaidh_sidhe
2005-09-07 11:59 pm UTC (link)
Ever read Tanya Huff's Blood Trail?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]dwg
2005-09-08 01:04 am UTC (link)
I loved Huff's Blood series! Those were some cool werewolves. Though, the mummy one freaked me out. *so happy that Huff's started a new series*

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]mysticpenguin, 2005-09-08 01:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2005-09-09 11:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]donnaidh_sidhe, 2005-09-10 12:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]taelle, 2005-09-14 08:41 am UTC

[info]reynardfox
2005-09-08 12:11 am UTC (link)
I usually read over what you've got and spend my time lurking, but I feel this has to be said -- thank you for saying this. I've seen so damned many books treat werewolves as monsters and have the shapeshifter constantly bemoaning his or her fate that I've pretty much avoided any books that center on shapeshifters.

On the other hand, they can be done right (as in the case of a minor character in Alice Borchardt's The Dragon Queen). It's not totally impossible... and you're right! Smiling werewolves are so much prettier. See, they're so pretty you could tie a little pink ribbon on their tail! (I bet they'd stop smiling, though.) >/lame humor<

Seriously, though. I appreciate the rants, and I really appreciate this one. It's a sad trend, unfortunately -- it's like writers are too skittish about trying something different with the whole werewolf mythology; too set in their ways, or just too enamoured with the whole glamourous angle of the "angst" factor.

I also agree that the wolves need more description. Forget the moon -- we know what that looks like! Wouldn't that be a great chance to just put yourself in the wolf's paws and take a nice flight of fancy on what it might be like to hunt, to feel the power of being lupine? To run at thirty or forty miles per hour, or tackle the challenge of describing something you've never done or experienced before...? <3

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]chocolatepot
2005-09-08 01:47 am UTC (link)
Maeniel is actually a major character in The Silver Wolf and ... the one that comes after it.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]reynardfox, 2005-09-08 02:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2005-09-09 11:54 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]reynardfox, 2005-09-10 12:50 am UTC

[info]dracobolt
2005-09-08 12:16 am UTC (link)
Whee! Thank you muchly for this one, Limyaael. Those are all very good points that I'm gonna keep in mind when writing. Being a werewolf in my story means that you'll slowly go insane over the course of a couple decades because of having both a wolf and human nature in the same body or something, but my character is optimistic about that. I wanted to make him a non-angsty werewolf from the start, and this rant will help a lot. Thanks again. ^_^

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]duckmole86
2005-09-09 08:59 pm UTC (link)
Where did you get your icon? I want it.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]dracobolt, 2005-09-10 03:16 am UTC

[info]avrelia
2005-09-08 12:24 am UTC (link)
See? Aren’t smiling werewolves pretty?

Oh yes they are.

I think that if in the story full moon controls werewolves that an interesting conflict may grow out of werewolves’ fighting with moon for control over their body. Having two sides could mean that the questions of balance and control may arise – and not being angsty. Or maybe, the werewolf already got the balance and control she needs and enjoys now happy werewolf life.

Which brings me to the question of sex. Why would a werewolf not question her preferences – humans, wolves, werewolves? And whether she would get more attracted to wolves in her wolf-form?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]limyaael
2005-09-09 11:55 pm UTC (link)
Werewolf-wolf matings are hella rare, unless the author is using them to produce a monster. Most authors seem to consider werewolves as transformed humans before they consider them shifted wolves, and so their having sex with "normal" wolves is bestiality.

But, really, I don't see why not.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]graybunny
2005-09-08 12:24 am UTC (link)
Terry Pratchett seems to have a pretty good handle on werewolves. They're just one species among many, and even though they're generally regarded as unpleasant savages by a lot of other species, with some justification, they don't care, because they have their own culture to support them.

And then there's Angua, for contrast, who has chosen to live a civilized life in the city and is a well-regarded officer in the city watch. Her special abilities come in handy from time to time, and they don't put her on the duty roster for nights when the moon is full, and that's about the extent to which anybody cares about her species.

In one book, there is also a wonderful description of what it's like to smell things as a werewolf.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]caremel
2005-09-08 12:35 am UTC (link)
Yes, Terry Pratchett does handle werewolves beautifully *Terry Pratchett admiration*. Angua is my most favourite werewolf ever. Angsty werewolves ar just so DULL.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]undeadgoat, 2005-09-08 12:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_s_guy, 2005-09-08 05:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]alex_von_cercek, 2005-09-08 06:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]undeadgoat, 2005-09-09 10:14 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]chocolatepot, 2005-09-08 01:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]l_clausewitz, 2005-09-08 02:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]l_clausewitz, 2005-09-08 02:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]tamerterra, 2005-09-08 05:21 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2005-09-09 11:55 pm UTC

[info]reiknight
2005-09-08 12:25 am UTC (link)
You make me want to write a story with werewolves now.
I might write a short story about them.

(Reply to this)


[info]undeadgoat
2005-09-08 12:50 am UTC (link)
*deep breath*

Right, I haven't been around because of crazy summer stuff, and now there's crazy school stuff going to get in the way, but I just gotta pull a me before I have to get off, and say

That's what I heart so much about PTerry's werewolves -- it's like he deals with all these points, but in that "traditional fantasy satire" way. Yes, the werewolves have their own culuter, yes Carrot/Angua is THE SWEETEST RELATIONSHIP IN THE WORLD and it goes into the real issues of people being people and how a werewolf might react to the person who isn't at all pejudiced in any way, when she's used to prejudice enough she's never been able to keep a relationship, and "Hmm this happens what happens next" which is why PTerry is such a great example for your rants.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]dryaunda
2005-09-09 09:37 pm UTC (link)
*Looks at Remus/Tonks icon*

Speaking of werewolves with a reason to be happy...

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]undeadgoat, 2005-09-09 10:13 pm UTC

[info]dwg
2005-09-08 01:01 am UTC (link)
Oh, the angst.

I think I wrote my own set of rants about werewolves a bit back after I went off on the vampire mythos. I championed Fool Moon by Jim Butcher as one of the few authors that seemed to have done any kind of homework on the umpteen trillion ways to wind up a werewolf. I remember that LKH's rant on Underworld and seeing Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban set me off (dude, Remus? Weakest werewolf on film EVAR! He's a freaking whippet on stilts!).

I think part of the reason why werewolves wind up so angsty is that a lot of scholars use the myth to say that it's another way to express being a teenager - your body goes through these uncontrolled changes, blah de dah - and that it can represent Man's inherent bestial nature and how he may be in denial about its presence thus to get over it and be a nice, normal, stable person you have to "embrace the wolf" and...well, get over it. If I had a dollar for every time I had those theories babbled at me, I'd be able to buy a really fancy silver pen to stab people with.

I just encourage people to do their homework on the myth - there's plenty of material out there, there's tons of movies (I like the movies for the cheese-factor...Dog Soldiers, anyone?) - and stick to it. Suddenly the need for angst may well go out the window.

One thing I decided quite early in my world-building was that I wasn't going to have the angsty lone wolf stereotype. Most werewolves tend to have their own lives, and come full moon, they're the ones that own the streets. Basically, a full-grown werewolf on a night of the full moon is something you wouldn't want to mess with, it'd be like trying to stop a speeding Mack Truck just by whispering. Instantly, the whole dynamic with the vampires and other preternatural creatures shifted, because on nights of the full moon, people don't go out much. Or, if you have to go out, you stay away from werewolf territory and carry lots of silver bullets. Even the vampires stay in, because they don't want to get eaten. Which is ace as a writer, because I'm not spending all my time angsting about the poor werewolf under the oppressive heel of the decadent vampire overlord.

(What about a werewolf who lives with a family of werecoyotes?) - Have you read Wild Blood by Nancy A. Collins? Because...that kinda happens. On the one hand, it's a really cool werewolf gig, on the other it's your typical Unassuming Hero that turns out to be the saviour/only one with magic yadda yadda, could get the girl and become king.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]tj_dragon
2005-09-08 09:10 pm UTC (link)
That's soo true about Prisoner of Azkaban! I love your description I may steal that for the next time I rant about it. #That werewolf was really weak it looked like you could just push it over. It wasn't even particularly fluffy and didn't have a decent tail. Whats the point of being a werewolf if you don't have a big fluffy tail to wag happily as you savage people?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]dwg, 2005-09-08 11:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2005-09-09 11:57 pm UTC

[info]marikochan
2005-09-08 01:36 am UTC (link)
I was so surprised when I started reading this because for some reason I clicked on the LJ-cut thinking that this was a post by a different LJ friend, one who writes a lot of Harry Potter fanfiction, and thus that this was a fanfic about Remus. (Honestly, I was happier with the essay. But it was alarming.) I don't know what's wrong with my brain.

(Reply to this)

I'm a huge fan of White Wolf's "Werewolf: The Apocalypse"
[info]swordbreaker1
2005-09-08 01:45 am UTC (link)
Which sadly some times falls prey to the "embracing the wolf" archtype, but the series as a whole is wonderfully done and the characterisation is simply incredible at times. Especially the "Shadow Lords" novel by Gherbod Fleming. The writing on that one is simply brilliant.

Eh, I'm a werewolf nerd. And yeah, Pratchett has a great handle on lycanthropes.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: I'm a huge fan of White Wolf's "Werewolf: The Apocalypse"
[info]alexmegami
2005-09-08 09:12 am UTC (link)
Heh, I prefer Forsaken, myself, but at least there they give you a reason why you might angst (oh Christ, I got what dumped on me? And you say everyone and their brother wants me dead?), but you're really not allowed to dwell in it for too long - because if you do, you're as good as gone.

And Pratchett is always amazing.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: I'm a huge fan of White Wolf's "Werewolf: The Apocalypse" - [info]lyorn, 2005-09-08 09:35 am UTC

[info]blunder_buss
2005-09-08 01:45 am UTC (link)
Wow, number 1 is giving me ideas. What if werewolves were considered 'higher' beings and were almost a religiously revered group of people? Then they'd be feared not because they were 'monsters', but because you knew they could rip out your throat at a moment's notice. Or maybe the werewolves would rule over the weaker humans.

And wouldn't people WANT to become werewolves, especially if they were oppressed peasants? I doubt the corrupt soldiers would try to rape you if you could turn into a wolf and castrate him. Or what if the army was made solely of werewolves?

PLOT BUNNIES, ARGH.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]kgbooklog
2005-09-08 02:54 am UTC (link)
Or what if the army was made solely of werewolves?

The [secret?] police in Stroud's Bartimaeus trilogy are werewolves. But none of them are on stage long enough to angst.

You know, I don't think I've ever read any angsty werewolf stories. I think. The only werewolf stories I can think of are ones already mentioned here (Pratchett, Butcher, Huff, Rowling). Erikson has shapeshifters, but it's definitely not lycanthropy (and I think the closest he gets to a werewolf is one guy who shifts into 6 wolves at once).

Oh wait, there's also the Weres in Harris' Southern Vampire series (no angst there either, at least not about being a werewolf).

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]alexmegami, 2005-09-08 09:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]blunder_buss, 2005-09-08 11:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]beccastareyes, 2005-09-08 03:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]alexmegami, 2005-09-08 11:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]secant, 2005-09-08 01:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2005-09-09 11:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]blunder_buss, 2005-09-10 01:28 pm UTC

[info]chiyo_no_saru
2005-09-08 02:08 am UTC (link)
I have an urban type story with werewolves - they're not angsty. Well, some of them are, I'm sure, but not the ones I'm writing about. They can change relativley at will, but it hurts, and they have to at the moon and if they get too upset. They have reservation type things, and some live in the city - support groups, etc. etc. It's kinda fun.

Definitely no angst, though. It annoys me.

(Reply to this)


[info]narcissisma
2005-09-08 02:19 am UTC (link)
Thank you kindly^^

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]limyaael
2005-09-09 11:58 pm UTC (link)
You're welcome. :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]erythros
2005-09-08 02:27 am UTC (link)
humans can’t change shape and run nine miles an hour for hours on end

... hmmm.

Now I'm trying to decide if nine miles an hour for hours on end (eeeeee) could make up for the stench of wet dog.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]duckmole86
2005-09-09 09:17 pm UTC (link)
Ah, but as Tammy Pierce illustrates in the book "Wolf Speaker", wolves opinion on what smells good and what doesn't would differ from what humans would think, andas his senses shifted, so might is opinions.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2005-09-09 11:59 pm UTC

[info]tsuki_no_bara
2005-09-08 02:29 am UTC (link)
the only werewolf story i've read voluntarily is suzy mckee charnas' "boobs", which is a short story and not a novel and is about a teenage girl who, yes, turns into a werewolf. she does it a couple of times before she figures out what's going on and how she can stop herself from eating the dogs in the neighborhood. (altho i think there's one little yippy dog that deserves it....) she feels kind of sick the first time she eats a dog, because it was someone's dog, but there really isn't any angst. it's great. ^_^ (i'm not a huge fan of the werewolf, at least the ones that aren't remus lupin, probably because of all the things you mention....)

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]youraugustine
2005-09-08 03:12 am UTC (link)
::amused:: I'd say the wuffies feel neglected, but I haven't written them in AGES . . . so I shouldn't talk.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]goldjadeocean, 2005-09-08 05:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]tsuki_no_bara, 2005-09-08 05:17 pm UTC

[info]wanderingbhikkh
2005-09-08 02:44 am UTC (link)
And my werewolf book was shaping up pretty well, and this just kicked it into gear.

I was wondering what the hell the modern-day pack would do with itself. Now I know.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]asciiskull
2005-09-08 06:54 am UTC (link)
They'd probably make a living doing porn shoots and claiming it's photoshopped.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]graybunny
2005-09-08 03:05 am UTC (link)
Supposing werewolves were the parent race?

By individual inclination, some favor the human and some favor the wolf. Over time, the human-inclined weres become herders and builders. They maintain a reasonably good relationship with their more wolfy brethren who defend the farms from other packs and in return have a guaranteed food supply when the hunting is bad and a warm, dry lair when the weather is bad. And since they aren't that far apart, there is constant contact and a steady flow of individuals who change roles for one reason or another.

Over the centuries, the specialization continues. There are urban weres who build and live in cities; they are almost entirely human and rarely shift, and may even have largely lost the ability to do so. On the other extreme are the wilderness weres, who believe in living wild and hunting, disdaining even the farms of the centrist weres, and are almost entirely wolf.

This could be the setting for were-ish politics, the urbans versus the wilds, with the normal werewolves, who have some contact and alliance with both sides, caught in between. Or there may be enough room in the world for everybody to have their own place and it's just background for something else.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]l_clausewitz
2005-09-08 02:24 pm UTC (link)
While it may be good to discuss such ideas, isn't it even better to actually write them?

Wanna try?

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]rhjunior
2005-09-08 03:09 am UTC (link)
If you’re writing from the shapeshifter’s viewpoint, then the audience already knows, and the other characters begin to seem idiotic for not figuring it out.
Wellllll...... you come up hard against that whole "but who's going to beleive it?" thing. People spend an incredible amount of time convincing themselves there's a perfectly rational explanation for all the weird, unseleighe things they see or hear. A person who saw evidence someone was capable of transforming into a giant wolf would be hard pressed to convince themselves, much less anyone else.

And just as a curveball.... why WereWOLF? Or any particular species, for that matter? How about a race of shapeshifters who transform into something more, shall we say, generically feral--- fangs, fur, claws, the works, something carnivorous and animal, but not QUITE a canine, not QUITE a feline, not QUITE anything in particular, but with traits of all the above......

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]rhjunior
2005-09-08 03:24 am UTC (link)
Allow me to add to the previous an expressed annoyance at the "contagious lycanthropy" plot device. A moment's math messes that up royally. Suppose an average werewolf only infected one person in a typical year. That means every year the number of werewolves in the area would double. within twelve years there would be a population of over 2,000 werewolves.... what one might call a noticeable problem, even to the average horror-movie cast of ignorant, utterly oblivious townsfolk. And considering that the average horror movie, book, etc. portrays werewolves as monsters that attack humans at any opportunity, that's a highly conservative estimate. More likely you'd see those numbers within 12 moonrises, not 12 years.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]alexmegami, 2005-09-08 09:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_s_guy, 2005-09-08 05:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lyorn, 2005-09-08 09:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]coffeedryad, 2005-09-09 01:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]seawolf10, 2005-09-11 03:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]duckmole86, 2005-09-09 09:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2005-09-10 12:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rhjunior, 2005-09-10 02:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mrinitialman, 2009-11-01 07:21 am UTC

[info]youraugustine
2005-09-08 03:14 am UTC (link)
. . .and Deke goes "DUDE! LIMBO!"

Limyaael? If I wind up writing him experimenting with limbo through the pack in wolfshape? I am going to eat your firstborn. There is only so much of his ridiculousness I can TAKE.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]limyaael
2005-09-10 12:01 am UTC (link)
*hides firstborn*

Because, honestly, I would kind of like to see it.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]ggmoonycrisco
2005-09-08 03:24 am UTC (link)
Pratchett's werewolves are fantastic. Angua is one of my favorite characters in any book, ever, and I particularly love how he focuses jokes on the dog-like aspects of werewolves-- cringing when they hear the words "bath" or "vet" (as in "Vetinari"-- always hilarious), or the drop-dead hysterical bit in The Fifth Elephant where Vimes tries to come up with clever things to say after tossing a lit firework for a criminal werewolf to catch. ("Son of a bitch!")

I'm afraid I'm guilty of angsty werewolves, but I'm honestly trying to get over it. The only story of mine to ever predominately feature werewolves is one that I've picked up and set down a few times, about a college student who finds out he is a werewolf just as a "Paranormal Movement" begins and ghosts, zombies, vampires and the like all start "coming out of the closet". Will has managed to keep the angst to a minimum so far. In a Pratchettesque manner, I have his best friend training him with a shock collar, and the human Will developing a taste and craving for Snausages and Beggin' Strips ("That!! IT'S BACON!!" "No... it's not.")

Wow, I wrote a novel. Sorry. ;_; THANK YOU so much for the excellent guide!! ::adapts to it immediately!::

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]londonkds
2005-09-08 09:28 am UTC (link)
Um, actually you completely missed the point of that scene in Fifth Element. It's Vimes deliberately not making a joke because he, and Pratchett too I suspect, believe that "heroes" who go around cracking jokes over the corpses of their adversaries aren't very nice people.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]whizbangkid
2005-09-08 03:35 am UTC (link)
Ha, I love it. Do you mind if I friend you?

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]limyaael
2005-09-10 12:01 am UTC (link)
Not at all! Welcome.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]rhjunior
2005-09-08 04:20 am UTC (link)
Just out of curiousity, why "angsty werewolves?" I would think vampires would be bigger candidates for criticism in that area. Not only are vampires angsty, they're romanticized, androgynously sexual, tragically poetic, superbly coiffed, manicured, and garbed, perfectly poised, "darkly" elegant, lounging about and rhapsodizing about the high culture of centuries past as they sip AB+ from champagne flutes....

Good grief, I just realized: they're GOTH ELVES.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]kawakiisakazuki
2005-09-08 07:14 am UTC (link)
Bwahahaha, goth elves!

My thoughts went to angsty vampires, too...

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]lyorn, 2005-09-08 09:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]l_clausewitz, 2005-09-08 02:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pico_the_great, 2005-09-09 08:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]duckmole86, 2005-09-09 09:28 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2005-09-10 12:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]rhjunior, 2005-09-10 02:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]iammy_om, 2005-09-29 06:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rhjunior, 2005-09-29 07:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]iammy_om, 2005-09-30 11:12 pm UTC

(131 comments) - (Post a new comment)

Page 1 of 3
<<[1] [2] [3] >>

Create an Account
Forgot your login or password?
Login w/ OpenID
English • Español • Deutsch • Русский…