Limyaael ([info]limyaael) wrote,
@ 2005-09-19 22:19:00
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Current mood: bouncy
Entry tags:fantasy rants: summer 2005, world-building: politics, world-building: society

Rant on other worlds/alternate worlds
So! Some ideas about these concepts as they apply—in fantasy, not science fiction (though, properly done, fantasy could snitch ideas about these from SF. Why not? SF has snitched plenty from fantasy.)



1) How is it achieved? In most fantasies, interdimensional/-world/-universal/-what-have-you travel (see point 2) is no small matter. Not just anyone can wake up one morning, say, “I think I’d like my living room on an ocean in another world!”, and so move house. It can be a solemn ritual, or a great effort of magic, or a guarded portal, or an object keyed to a certain person or bloodline, but it’s a matter for the Mighty, not for Joe Schmoe in the street.

Why?

I don’t know. Perhaps most people just feel there’s something solemn and awe-inspiring about ripping open the fabric of the space-time continuum.

But is that what you’re doing? Or is it more akin to opening a door from one room in a house to another? Very few people seem to find anything solemn and awe-inspiring about that. They just step through.

Note that I’m not saying you can only have a credible fantasy world if everyone possesses an Amulet of Interplanar Travel; not at all. But think about several things:

-How much effort/resources/materials does it take? Perhaps almost everyone would travel this way if they could, but few people can afford it.
-How easy is it to guard? A single stable portal or a necklace that opens portals, and is the only one of its kind in all the world, would be easier than continual unstable portals that pop up wherever the hell they please, and perhaps mostly in populated areas.
-How widespread is the knowledge? Many times, only a small and secret sect of mages knows that “there are other worlds than these.” On the other hand, almost everyone knows about the existence of magic. So the knowledge of “what” could be widespread, even if most people don’t know “how.”
-What are the motives for keeping this knowledge secret or safe? If the portal affords an economic advantage (see point 3 especially), then of course the small and secret sect of mages might keep it hush-hush to continue enjoying a monopoly on those goods.

Being all woo-woo with mystical portals in the woods that only open on a midsummer full moon night is one way to go, but certainly not the only way.

2) How do people conceive of these other worlds? Here you’ve got a whole can of worms to fry, because how people think about those other worlds will affect how they think it permissible to treat them.

Perhaps these worlds are seen as simple alternative worlds (or really are; it wouldn’t be the first time an author wrote someone or some group of people in the fantasy world as having true metaphysical knowledge). Analogues of other people exist in them. The history is almost the same except for one little twist. This might encourage people in the “true” world to play around with them, or alternatively—ha-ha—to preserve them because they see their own world as screwed-up and deviating from a divine plan. Or they could treat the alternative worlds as a convenient dumping place for exiles and criminals; just send them into a world where their political faction won, or where they have very strict methods of punishing those who break the law.

Perhaps these worlds are seen as completely separate. This is an especially sensible attitude if inter-world travel is so rare that there’s no possible way to establish a permanent trade route or colony in one of those other places. You might get a family living in several different worlds, but probably not more.

Perhaps they are seen as having purposes that relate to the “real” world. That mysterious “Otherworld” entity in bad pastiches of Celtic fantasy is an example of this. So is the world of dreams, the world of nightmares, and worlds that exist solely as origin places for nasty alien threats like demons. In that case, most people are probably not all that eager to hop into a portal and travel to another place where the very physical rules, as well as metaphysical ones, might be different.

Perhaps the worlds are accessible enough, and exploitable enough, to serve as sources of goods that the “real” world is missing. Then, as long as the exploiters could get back home easily, their attitude would probably resemble that of colonizing empires in our own Earth history. What matters is the mother country, not the colony, and people who care for it as its own place are going to be few and far between. (See point 3. Also, point 4, which I feel goes ignored too often).

Perhaps these worlds are partners or allies; communication is common, and governments in one world or another even send soldiers to help each other. I must admit I haven’t seen many examples of this. Almost always, someone who travels to another world finds the way across cut off from easy access, and is then hailed as the “savior” of that other world. (This is why I automatically distrust most stories of people traveling from Earth to another world, because I know what is going to happen).

Perhaps the other worlds aren’t seen as real at all, and so their inhabitants and resources can be used without remorse—as in Zelazny’s Amber conception.

Decide which you’re going to have, and then be sure to follow the implications of that attitude, or clash of attitudes, faithfully. If you want ruthless merchant families tearing open portals to all and sundry so they can make money, it makes no sense to suddenly reverse the trend and argue that “everyone” in the merchants’ home worlds believes that the other worlds are pure and not to be tampered with.

3) Why the economic relationship? Yes, those ruthless merchant families, they’ll sell to anyone. So we know from reading a hundred bad fantasies where the authors have read too much bad Renaissance-based fantasy, or seen too many Mafia movies, or got fixated on Amber and never looked further. But sooner or later, you’ve got to ask yourself a basic question: Why would a merchant family look to sell to other worlds, rather than sailing across seas and tunneling underground and gaining a ruthless merchant foothold in countries that already existed? Even Columbus was sailing to countries that he believed existed, not imaginary ones. No one’s going to finance a voyage or exploration that he or she thinks has no chance of succeeding. So what gave him or her the hint or suspicion of another world existing?

Once they have the hint or the suspicion, how did they win control of whatever it is that opens up the portal? If someone else owns the land/grove/set of mystical standing stones/pile of dung the portal opens on, why is he or she going to sell? If it’s an object, how did the merchant family acquire it? If it’s magic, why go to so much trouble setting up this one specific ritual or act of magic? (This is where I come over and stare very hard at authors who just use the old bland excuse, “Oh, the [Interplanar Amulet of Woo-Woo Mystical Travel] had been in her family forever.” How did that happen? If you’re dealing with ruthless merchant families who have made this kind of travel the foundation of a business empire, you should be dealing with hard practicalities. So… *stare*).

What goods do they take through the portal? (Yes, you have to know). Are they ones not available in their own world? Why? Or is the other world also/primarily a market for their own goods? Why? What would happen if the portal collapsed or failed to work, and they couldn’t sell to that world anymore? Would it completely destroy their trade, leaving them with no backup plan? Why?

Who knows this secret? Is it kept in a family, a guild, a circle of families, all the merchants of a particular country or kingdom, the world? Who controls it? The ones who controlled it might not have to trade to the other world at all; they could just tax the hell out of goods coming through the portal, and make people pay for the privilege of accessing it, and sit back, growing fat and rich.

How extensive is the trading operation in the other world? Do the merchants there appear as nomads, as a native business organization (or using a native one for a front), as a family, as a string of tourists? Do they ever get involved in tariff wars, or caught as smugglers? What is the other world’s policy on silk smuggled into another world, anyway?

You could write some damn good economic fantasy with this premise. On the other hand, I can also think of many, many authors who would just use it to get some damned savior into some damned high fantasy world again. So, if you bother setting up an economic premise for contact between worlds at all, know why the hell people wanted to set it up, and how they keep it going.

4) “When you look into the other world, the other world also looks into you.” It is flat-out fucking amazing to me how many authors treat other worlds as dependent on the existence of a “central” world (usually whichever one the protagonist comes from), even when they claim not to be writing from that setup.

Example A: Fantasy World Ch’uch’churrgen cannot actually save itself. It must import a savior from Fantasy World Bh’jk’lp, who is so damn Speshul that butterflies fly out of her eyes.
Example B: Fantasy World Bh’jk’lp is being exploited ruthlessly by Fantasy World Siss’iss’issila’r. They cannot do anything to save themselves because, of course, they are far inferior in magic and/or technology. The Compassionate Hero from Siss’iss’issila’r has to have a crisis of conscience and waltz in to stop said ruthless exploitation, whereupon the natives of Bh’jk’lp fawn on him in a way that is always at least faintly imperialist and creepy, and sometimes outright racism.
Example C: The action in Fantasy World Siss’iss’issila’r is the “real” action. All other worlds exist as just alternatives or analogues to it, and will stand or fall as it does.
Example D: Everyone on Fantasy World Ch’uch’churrgen is so damn smart that they’ve been sending exiles and criminals and merchants and people who want to vacation to Fantasy World Bh’jk’lp for years, and no one has ever noticed.

Why doesn’t it ever occur to any fantasy author that, well, those other worlds might have smart people of their own in place, and merchants, and magic, and technology, and spies who will, oh, I don’t know, report things like seeing a giant hole to purple nothingness suddenly gaping in the air?

Start thinking not just about how the protagonist’s world sees other worlds, but how they see the protagonist’s world. They are not necessarily going to be simpler, or blinder, or stupider. They can have their own attitudes about portal travel, and no, those attitudes don’t have to be based on taboos and outdated superstitions and mistaking technology for magic. (Just once I want to see a story where the smug protagonist is wrong about the metaphysical state of the universe, and learns that in fact ripping portals open all the time promptly kills all the kittens in the target world. Just once). And the relationship between worlds can be equal, at least sometimes, and does not have to be reenactment after reenactment of “divide and conquer” or “here comes the savior to save the day!”

Writing about actual equal interaction between worlds would be fascinating. Too bad that almost no one ever does it.



Ooh. And now I have license to write a rant I’ve wanted to write for some time: conlangs. *slobbers, drools*




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[info]kutsuwamushi
2005-09-20 02:32 am UTC (link)
conlangs

Oooo. I l'ook for'war'd to th'at.

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[info]jennaria
2005-09-20 02:34 am UTC (link)
Just once I want to see a story where the smug protagonist is wrong about the metaphysical state of the universe, and learns that in fact ripping portals open all the time promptly kills all the kittens in the target world. Just once).

Does HIS DARK MATERIALS count for this one? Every time a new portal is opened between worlds, it creates a nasty soul-sucking spirit.

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[info]cartesiandaemon
2005-09-20 09:29 am UTC (link)
Though the angels can destroy the suckers from the plot-necessary-exists hole, but not the suckers from the angst-nescessarily-doesn't hole. Suck, I hated that sucking bit :)

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[info]cinnamonical
2005-09-20 02:38 am UTC (link)
CONLANGS. OMG. WILL LOVE YOU FOREVER IF YOU DO A RANT ON THAT.

*has only recently learned about the concept of conlangs but is very fascinated by its possibilities*

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[info]undeadgoat
2005-09-20 02:49 am UTC (link)
*deep breath* OMG DARK LORD OF DERKHOLM IS LOVE EEEEEEEEEEEEESQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!eleventy!!!!!!!!!!

Which reminds me: I'm trying to get some serious Tolkein reading in before NaNo starts -- I don't have a lit class this semester, so therefore mucho tiempo for pleasure reading.

No, I dunno how it reminds me either.

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[info]farmercuerden
2005-10-28 01:38 am UTC (link)
I really liked Dark Lord of Derkholm, but it was a book you had to fill in a lot of details for yourself, wasn't it? Important plot points were hinted at instead of being seen, and... well... I kind of almost wish it was twice as long, and not quite so ruthlessly efficient. But, eh. =)

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[info]dwg
2005-09-20 02:52 am UTC (link)
Or is it more akin to opening a door from one room in a house to another? Very few people seem to find anything solemn and awe-inspiring about that. They just step through.

And that's when I suddenly started thinking C.S. Lewis and the whole Narnia thing. Because, basically, it's all about walking into a wardrobe and suddenly you're in a Whole Other Universe.

I know that from some of the reading I've done on old fairy stories and the like, getting to another world can be as simple as just walking through a door - there's a story about a couple of blokes that see a lively party on Halloween, one just walks into the pub, the other goes, "Ho, there, those people look WAYYY too merry and lively. They must be fey." and puts an iron nail in the door before entering. He gets thoroughly drunk, has a ball of a time and leaves. His mate, on the other hand, gets feystruck and can't leave, or stop dancing. Anyway, a year later, the same guy comes back on the same road and notices the same lively party going on. He pulls his nail out of the door and puts it back in, or puts a new nail in the door, and goes back inside - his mate is still dancing away. This time, he grabs his friend and there's a lot of struggling to get him out of the pub - where the friend promptly ages and dies.

Througout folklore there's been all manner of tales about passing from this world into another through ordinary means - doorways, mounds, mists, forests, sailing, mountains - and people being trapped there, or suddenly reappearing days, months, years, or even centuries later. I kinda like the idea of swimming down into a lake until you break the surface on the other side. :P

Perhaps these worlds are partners or allies; communication is common, and governments in one world or another even send soldiers to help each other. I must admit I haven’t seen many examples of this. - Go read Top 10 by Alan Moore. Sure, it's a graphic novel, but it kinda touches on this. The city of Neopolis is just one in an array of worlds and they're all connected via transporters, and there's a police station in each one. The one here on Earth (as we kinda know it) is Precinct 10 and thus the setting for the comics - but there are other dimensions and one of the officers goes there - one where the Romans weren't defeated and everyone still spoke Latin, and amusedly, they point out, "No, our world's not the weird one - YOURS is. For some reason, yours is one of the few where the Roman Empire fell. You freak. Now, get in that Coloseum and KILL PEOPLE!"

You'd probably find the whole idea of a city full of superheroes interesting anyway.

Point 4 amuses me. Simply because I like the idea of the Hero entering the other world and being told to go away, she's a pest and unwanted. Not sooper sekritly needing the Hero to stay but won't admit it because they're an arrogant people, no, just that they genuinely don't want her around. Or, you could just watch a heap of Stargate and spin off a plot from one of those, because SG-1 doesn't always race in and save the day, sometimes they do some serious damage, or get bitchslapped for being puny, stupid humans. It means the Hero either has to learn how to eat Humble Pie or work hard to strive to prove that he or she is actually WORTH paying the attention.

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[info]tiferet
2005-09-20 02:58 am UTC (link)
It would, I have to admit, be really funny to see interplanar travellers greeted with the equivalent of "oh great more #@$^$#^@#^ wetbacks."

Even though I hate that attitude here.

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(no subject) - [info]rhjunior, 2005-09-20 04:17 am UTC
Staaaargaaaateeeee *drool* - [info]bardessc, 2005-09-20 03:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dwg, 2005-09-20 04:10 am UTC
Re: Staaaargaaaateeeee *drool* - [info]brockpaine, 2005-09-20 06:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bardofannwn, 2005-09-20 11:18 am UTC
Completely OT - [info]evilstorm, 2005-09-20 12:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dwg, 2005-09-20 01:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]dwg, 2005-09-20 01:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]elena_takami, 2005-09-27 05:22 pm UTC

[info]elanor_two
2005-09-20 02:55 am UTC (link)
Yay! Thank you for this rant; I'd really like to write intertangled worlds and I'll keep these in mind.

Siss’iss’issila’r, Ch’uch’churrgen and Bh’jk’lp made me laugh out loud. :)

In connection to this rant, what do you think of the way Philip Pullman handled multiworld travel in His Dark Materials?

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[info]sabotabby
2005-09-20 01:53 pm UTC (link)
You didn't ask me, but I loved it. It was sensible -- if I recall correctly there were exchanges from one world to another by accident, and then the bad guys started looking for more scientific ways to do it. And it had its limits -- someone from one world couldn't just live happily in another one; there was such a high price that almost no one in his or her right mind would actually choose to do it. The only one I didn't like was the weird utopia in The Amber Spyglass, just because it was the least-developed world.

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(no subject) - [info]elanor_two, 2005-09-20 04:57 pm UTC

[info]peneli
2005-09-20 03:15 am UTC (link)
"Writing about actual equal interaction between worlds would be fascinating. Too bad that almost no one ever does it."

Hehe. Dit it all, and it was for a D&D campaign that I co-ran. :D We had two sets of characters, from two different worlds (with complete backgrounds, and differing worldviews), a third world they went to, and Faery. None of the worlds knew about each other, but they all knew about Faery. Ways to access Fae were fairly traditional: particular doorways of sorts just lead into it, soft places and all that, but then it started to invade their worlds and they got recruited to go fix it. By a Fae Queen. Who saw all the normal worlds (faery is connected to them but not them to each other) as her play-things, and liked to create heros of stories for a pastime. Oh, it got interesting when the two parties met, and had serious culture shock and worldview shock, and then they saw a third world! Also, they'd all had reason to hate fae before the start... you can imagine it got complicated, and the plot needed little push once they started reacting. Mmm, that was a fun campaign.

Really, the whole plot hinged on how people viewed other worlds, and there were no clear-cut "bad guys": just a bunch of people who didn't realize that other worlds were as real as theirs or that what they were doing was destroying other worlds. Although the Fae recruited our "heros", they were really serving their own interests and the players definitely rebelled against those NPCs a bunch, which was fun to watch. Finally, the world they went to was so unlike their own that they conceived a hatred of a group that was seen there as the result of a people's rebellion, a bastion of liberty. It was very fun to play with their perceptions.

Of course, it's easier to do when you have a bunch of real people to explain a worldview to and then throw in your situations. I dunno if I could write something as complex as the thing that happened, partly because I never even foresaw some of the ways the worldview(s) I told them they started with would play out as they found out the reality of the situation.

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[info]edg
2005-09-20 03:42 am UTC (link)
I apologize for the Comment of Doom that is to follow, but this line:

Start thinking not just about how the protagonist’s world sees other worlds, but how they see the protagonist’s world.

made me think about a passage from The Broken Spears, which I ran across earlier this semester in a history class. Montezuma's messengers are reporting to him about the Spanish conquistadores approaching from the east, and it's a great illustration of how one culture views another, utterly foreign one:

[Montezuma] was also terrified to learn how the cannon roared, how its noise resounded, how it caused one to faint and grow deaf. The messengers told him: "A thing like a ball of stone comes out of its entrails: it comes out shooting sparks and raining fire. The smoke that comes out of it has a pestilent odor, like that of rotten mud. This odor penetrates even to the brain and causes the greatest discomfort. If the cannon is aimed against a mountain, the mountain splits and cracks open. If it is aimed against a tree, it shatters the tree into splinters. This is a most unnatural sight, as if the tree had exploded from within." The messengers also said: "Their trappings and arms are all made of iron. They dress in iron and wear iron casques ([helmets]) on their heads. Their swords are iron; their bows are iron; their shields are iron; their spears are iron. Their deer carry them on their backs wherever they wish to go. These deer, our lord, are as tall as the roof of a house. The strangers' bodies are completely covered, so that only their faces can be seen. Their skin is white, as if it were made of lime. They have yellow hair, though some of them have black. Their beards are long and yellow, and their mustaches are also yellow. Their hair is curly, with very fine strands.

"Their dogs are enormous, with flat ears and long, dangling tongues. The color of their eyes is a burning yellow; their eyes flash firee and shoot off sparks. Their bellies are hollow, their flanks long and narrow. They are tireless and very powerful. They bound here and there, panting, with their tongues hanging out. And they are spotted like an ocelot." When [Montezuma] heard this report, he was filled with terror. It was as if his heart had fainted, as if it had shriveled. It was as if he were conquered by despair.

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[info]larathia
2005-09-20 04:04 am UTC (link)
I'm currently on "the portals take a huge amount of power to open, and if you haven't got the required quota you die nastily" (hell, half my current plot has to do with a pair of kids that try to open a portal and get Massively Fucked Up as a result). I'm also on "to go through such a portal you undergo a profound death/rebirth experience", such that you 'die' to the world you leave and are 'born' to the world you arrive in. (In a semiliteral sense - you don't get shoved out of a vagina or regress in age, but you're physically made over from the ground up, and boy is it with the queasymaking).

Dunno if that's enough, but I do have a whole family of such mages that will make that trip once, exactly once, and then you can't PAY them enough to try that trip again because man, sanity is more precious than gold.

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[info]baronger
2005-09-20 04:50 am UTC (link)
That's more in line with my thinking when I do alternate worlds. It's also how I solved the actions of a character who could resurrect after her body is killed. I made the experience so painful, and uncomfortable that she wouldn't want to do it willingly.

Of course I have a totaly different twist on why one character would go from one alternate world to visit another. My character wants to destroy the world. I'm going with power and knowledge to transfer between worlds sucessfully.

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(no subject) - [info]larathia, 2005-09-20 11:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]marumae, 2005-09-20 02:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]larathia, 2005-09-20 03:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]marumae, 2005-09-20 04:03 pm UTC

[info]yhlee
2005-09-20 04:20 am UTC (link)
I have been snarling about conlangs in fiction for ages. I look forward to seeing your rant.

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[info]asciiskull
2005-09-20 06:03 am UTC (link)
And of course there's Planescape, the D&D setting that was spread out across many, many well detailed interplanar locales, including the city of Sigil, where practically every enclosed arch was a portal to somewhere or another if you knew how to open it.

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[info]lian_li
2005-09-20 05:12 pm UTC (link)
Ahahahaaa, someone mentioned Planescape! Woo-hoo! Sigil, the City of Doors, is also a the right place to go if you're looking for people gone mental as consequence of accidently stepping through the wrong door... (caution: just pretending, I've never actually role-played in Planescape, I only know the RPG "Planescape: Torment", which happens to be my fav computer game of all times. *hearts*)

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[info]dialogue
2005-09-20 06:13 am UTC (link)
Ah...this is a good rant for me to take to heart, since my big project involves two worlds, though they're not really from alternate dimensions--one's Earth, and though I haven't decided exactly where Elorhe is, it's probably somewhere in the Milky Way Galaxy. I've been doing a lot of fine-tuning the concept--and the relationship between the two worlds--and this will certainly help.

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[info]alex_von_cercek
2005-09-20 07:39 am UTC (link)
"There are other worlds than these."
Hello, Stephen King!

Yeah, his dark tower series is utterly "central world, less important worlds around it". The central world being not the one the protagonist is from, but the one Stephen King is from.

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[info]otakukeith
2005-09-20 10:17 am UTC (link)
In most fantasies, interdimensional/-world/-universal/-what-have-you travel (see point 2) is no small matter. Not just anyone can wake up one morning, say, “I think I’d like my living room on an ocean in another world!”, and so move house. It can be a solemn ritual, or a great effort of magic, or a guarded portal, or an object keyed to a certain person or bloodline, but it’s a matter for the Mighty, not for Joe Schmoe in the street.

In the fantasy manga series Tsubasa: Reservoir Chronicle, the power to travel between dimensions is highly prized - only a few people can do it, and most of them find it very hard. The heroine supposedly has a much more powerful version, which the Mysterious Evil Guy is trying to get (or he will, I reckon, once she gets it back along with her memories). The group of main characters travel between worlds thanks to the aid of a cuddly super-deformed rabbit-like creature. :D

(Just once I want to see a story where the smug protagonist is wrong about the metaphysical state of the universe, and learns that in fact ripping portals open all the time promptly kills all the kittens in the target world. Just once).

In Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials, it is discovered that using the Subtle Knife to open doors between worlds creates a soul-sucking creature called a Spectre each time. That do? :D

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[info]mindelemental
2005-09-20 11:12 am UTC (link)
I don't suppose you've read The Family Trade, by Charles Stross? That's a novel whose central concept revolves around your (3); I'd be curious to hear how well you think Stross handled it.

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[info]hot_soup
2005-09-20 04:46 pm UTC (link)
That's the first novel I thought of as well. It's got a thought-out economic reason for dimension-hopping, and such delightful anachronisms as submachineguns being wielded by armoured knights. Our world appears to be the most technologically advanced (of the worlds we've seen so far), but it doesn't have a monopoly on intelligence or politically astuteness.

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(no subject) - [info]mindelemental, 2005-09-21 10:36 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]silenceleigh, 2005-09-20 04:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]autopope, 2005-09-20 10:55 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]silenceleigh, 2005-09-21 12:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mindelemental, 2005-09-21 10:38 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mindelemental, 2005-09-21 10:40 am UTC

[info]cartesiandaemon
2005-09-20 11:29 am UTC (link)
Damn you, now I want to write a story where butterflies come out of her eyes[1].

It would be gruesome (*imagine* it).

it would be inconvenient ("Can you tell me the way to the bus station?" "Mwaa! Bu.. bu... buttterflies!")

Come to think of it, surprisingly, Laurrel K. H. did this, and I thought it was actually very moving, not hokey at all *shrugs*

[1] You know it's sappy because it rhymes.

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[info]the_s_guy
2005-09-20 01:44 pm UTC (link)
I've definitely read a story where future humans use portals as regular doors. There's several mentions of houses with rooms on different planets, and as the portals are always on and transparent, they just resemble normal open doorways. Often, the only clue that you've passed through one is a change of gravity or ambient light. (Presumably they were locked against different air pressures, etc. And I hate to think how many ecologies were destroyed.)

There's at least one recreational river which runs eternally in a loop around a couple of worlds, and everywhere in the settled galaxy is pretty much within a couple of hundred miles of everywhere else.

Then the portals are shut off, all at once, permanently. Total economic chaos results.

There's a similar story where the ability to warp space is removed from human volumes of the galaxy, with a similar result (not quite so bad, as they still retained separate planetside transport systems).

Then there's the one where every house has a Door that can connect to any other Door anywhere in the world, and almost no-one goes outside any more. A family's Door breaks down, and a child has to walk to the next externally-accessible Door, learns to appreciate Nature etc. Kind of an ironic reversal, in that it's the simple flap in the wall, not the supertechnological portal, that leads to a different 'world'.

I've often wondered how the invention of the teleporter, even if it required equipment at both ends, would affect our current world. Economic disaster for transport and delivery companies, especially if teleportation costs were cheap. Ecological disasters as air and dust from all over the world mixed. Not to mention insects and the small animals who currently turn up in shipping.

Tourism would boom, then crash, then probably morph into something new. Teleporters would be probably banned from being anywhere near important government buildings, then a single one would be added which would be heavily guarded, then they would start being treated as simply another type of entrance.

Flash crowds. Everywhere being a quick jaunt away. Natural preserves being designated teleporter-free, but poachers smuggling them in anyway. All cities would be outcroppings of the one city, and globalisation would gain teeth. What would happen to languages and signage, when every dialect on Earth could walk down your street in a day?

There would be no way, other than living in a teleporter-free zone, where you could ever hope to be really far away from someone you didn't like. Or a group of people you didn't like.

There could be no borders between countries. Unless all the international teleporters were a different kind, and controlled by the equivalent of airline companies, how could any government hope to regulate or even monitor traffic? And if a ten-mile teleporter could be set up by Joe Schmoe, border patrols would be useless.

What about differences in international law? Commit a crime in one jurisdiction, step sideways into another country. What can the pursuit do? Is it even illegal where you are now?

Eh, all good material.

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[info]goldjadeocean
2005-09-20 05:29 pm UTC (link)
There's several mentions of houses with rooms on different planets

On a smaller scale, that reminds me of the House Without Doors in Neil Gaiman's Neverwhere, and I thought that was a cool idea.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]sailorargus, 2005-09-21 12:56 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]otakukeith, 2005-09-21 12:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]beccastareyes, 2005-09-22 12:04 pm UTC

[info]marumae
2005-09-20 02:52 pm UTC (link)
This is another going in my favorites and memories simply because I love the concepts of other/alternate worlds. I spent a good CHUNK of my childhood trying to find the portal to one *grins*. Any surprise it now dominates my story telling at times? All valid points that most people don't even think of, I love the concept of Alternate world but I do get tired of the "our world is ever so much more superior that backwards stuck in the middle ages alternate world is in awe of our supreme technology". Also there's almost ALWAYS no drawbacks for world traveling, when there are it's usually "the stability of the worlds are threatened but let's have the climax of the story and then not touch that nasty concept for the rest of the novel/series".

It is flat-out fucking amazing to me how many authors treat other worlds as dependent on the existence of a “central” world

Agreed, most usually it's Earth or "our" world. I fiddled with this concept once but I tweaked so that, all worlds and alternate planes revolve in existence around and in magic (no central world or plane of existence) and our world, is actually *lower* then these worlds because for some reason something we did we knocked ourselves off the revolution. Hence the reason we don't have magic in our world, hence the reason I had it so that when this knowledge was learned the portals that lead us into this alternate worlds and planes started SERIOUSLY disrupting our world which had learned to function for millenia without it. I had akin to what would happen to our planet if the moon suddenly exploded and bits littered down on Earth. The figurative sh*t would hit the fan.


May I ask what a conlag is? ^^;;;

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]aihre
2005-09-22 11:46 am UTC (link)
Conlang stands for constructed language, ie. a made-up language. People create them for whatever reason -- sometimes for an imaginary world, but it seems most people do it for the pleasure of it. Visit [info]conlangs and you'll see what I mean. =)

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]dryaunda
2005-09-20 03:09 pm UTC (link)
You and [info]princeofcairo should trade notes sometime. I'm thinking of giving you a gift subscription to Pyramid just so you can read his articles!

(Reply to this)


[info]pico_the_great
2005-09-20 03:44 pm UTC (link)
I WIN.



My main novel has large numbers of worlds, and traveling between said worlds is incredibly easy and accepted as the norm. It's to the point where no world is in total isolation, and all worlds have an impact on all the rest. Even Earth, though it's relatively isolated: people are constantly stealing technology from earth, considering it a curiosity or an amusement or an idle toy, depnding on how muych they happen to have.

It's great! Inter-world markets are important to the point where having your trading rights or products in said markets changed or revoked or tampered with has been the cause of not one but several wars (like oil! or opium! or the east india tea co.!). There are, in fact, any number of wars, and if one world goes down, the rest keep on going,and the standard of magic is equal everywhere, excpet that each world has its own take on it (like you're trying to compare the American and British and Japanese and Indian school systems) and and and (restrains enthusiasm.)

I'm very, very glad my system has met with your approval. It keeps getting more and more complex, and still I worry that it's not enough, and go back and have to check everythign over again, and yeah.

almost no one ever does it. I hope to change that.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]pico_the_great
2005-09-20 03:50 pm UTC (link)
Oh, and Earth as the central world? Please. How can a world who doesn't work with magic on an everyday basis have any hope in going far? ;]

PS: By large numbers, I mean over a thousand.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]hieronymousb
2005-09-20 05:12 pm UTC (link)
NICELY DONE. I agree with Point #4 OH-SO-WHOLEHEARTEDLY, given that I see stories like this constantly, and they make me want to hurt things.

#1 amuses me, because in the past, I just wrote about interdimensional travel like, as you say, "stepping through a door", and no one cared. I often felt that I wasn't being "speshul" enough about it, but in retrospect, I'm glad I wasn't. *smirk*

(Reply to this)


[info]autopope
2005-09-20 10:49 pm UTC (link)
Writing about actual equal interaction between worlds would be fascinating. Too bad that almost no one ever does it.

Heh. Sold the first three books in the series to Tor (book #2 came out in hardcover last June), about to start work on #4 and #5 in the series.

See Five rules for cold-bloodedly designing a fantasy series for my brain dump on setting up the other/alternate worlds plot in fantasy. Interestingly, you seem to be treading a lot of the same ground.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]duckmole86
2005-09-30 01:25 am UTC (link)
Waita... who are you? I can't look into the book if I don't know what it is. Tell me. Please. 8\

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]brockpaine, 2005-09-30 04:37 pm UTC

[info]brockpaine
2005-09-20 11:46 pm UTC (link)
I've been following your rants for about six months and finally decided to post. :waves hello: I've considered doing a similar rant on sci-fi with my journal, but I tend to enjoy reading blogs more than I enjoy blogging.

In any case, I've particularly enjoyed this rant on multiple worlds, because it touches on the vampire hunter story I've been trying to write. Considering how many times I've started and restarted it (coming up: ninth time) maybe I'd best stick with my scifi. But then I'd have some fun characters without a story, such as the elven computer hackers and the family of werebutterflies.

Now that everyone is convinced I'm a crazed lunatic, I'm going to go make dinner...

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]duckmole86
2005-09-30 01:26 am UTC (link)
Elven computer hackers? Werebutterflies? Now that could make for an interesting world.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]brockpaine, 2005-09-30 04:59 am UTC

[info]brightbear
2005-09-23 12:54 pm UTC (link)
OMG. Your rants were recommended by a friend and I love all the ones I've read so far. There were so many good points or issues that have come up whenever I've been reading/writing (i.e. the arranged marrianges and the angsty werewovles). I just lacked the coherency to do more than grumble about it.

You also have some good ones that I've never even considered (i.e. the practicalities of alternative worlds and international politics). I hope you don't mind if I friend you immediately :)

(Reply to this)


[info]clayin
2005-09-28 01:52 am UTC (link)
Heh. Nice rant.
I've taken furious notes and gotten several ideas. I'll definitely keep all of this in mind when I write about magic portals and alternate worlds.
*goes off mumbling about a forgotten (and all-together useless) dynasty spread across worlds and the people who want to destroy them all*

(Reply to this)


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