Limyaael ([info]limyaael) wrote,
  • Mood: irate

Twins rant

This targets the clichés, mostly, but also includes ways to try and improve them, because I’m feeling nice like that this evening.



1) It’s awfully hard to cheer for infants, even if they’re twins. When a book starts with a baby, I usually roll my eyes. The baby is often an heir to the Something of Something, spirited away from god-knows-what danger into hiding, and of course the reader is meant to cheer for him or her because, gasp, what kind of villain would kill a helpless baby?!?

Well…a practical one. It’s better than waiting for the heir to the Something to Something to grow up, claim the Something of Something, and come to kill him.

It’s even worse when they’re twins. I bet the author is splitting them up. I bet the adults in the scene—who should be better-characterized than they are, given that they have had, oh, lives and experiences to have them in—will wail about how that is so unfair, and my what sorrows life will weave, and how they hope that the twins will find each other someday. And of course they will.

I fail to see how having a woman bear twins, then expire messily in the midst of blood (of course she does), then splitting the twins up for an infinitely predictable reunion years later is, in and of itself, exciting.

At the very least, make the adults interesting. Show why and how they’re devoted to the heirs, or the Something of Something the babies are heirs to. That way, if the book focuses on the quest to carry the twins to safety, I can at least feel sorry when the adults die (as they inevitably do). I’m not left feeling I have to cheer for a character the author has not made more than a bundle of baby blankets.

If the book focuses on the twins when they’re adults, or, far more likely, teenagers, then don’t rely on that first scene to tug on the reader’s heartstrings and hook her for life. It’s sentimental button-mashing. Yes, yes, the twins are being split up, sob sob. War orphans usually suffer far worse. At least these babies have people who care about their safety. And if the enemy is looking for twins, excuse me if I think it’s a better idea to split them up and try to hide them far apart from each other than to leave them together in plain sight because “gasp, twins have to be together!”

2) About the mind bond: Put up or shut up. I’m resigned to the fact that fantasy twins will have a mental bond, sometimes telepathic or empathic, usually both. They will be able to feel each other’s pain, to speak silently (and distance does not the fuck matter, usually), and sometimes to wield magic in concert. The author will go on long mystical spiels about how Speshul twins are. I will hide under the bed, and possibly keep reading if the writing is good enough. All the stupid things that I’ve already ranted about in person-to-person telepathic bonds will happen.

But, please, for gods’ sakes, show the mental bond in all its depth, including its agonies and its consequences. Don’t use it for a plot convenience, to be forgotten when the author wants one twin to wallow in angst, inexplicably alone. And don’t hinder it without explanation. So these twins have a bond that lets them tell which direction the other one is in at all times, and usually exactly where the other one is. But then one of them gets kidnapped, and the rescuers never think to have the other twin pinpoint the location of the one in danger, just so that the author can have a long dramatic chase scene? Oh come the fuck on.

You had better have an excellent idea of the potentialities and limitations of such a bond, and apply them rigorously. Yes, hi, it’s another form of magic that needs rules. This is less because of the nature of the magic itself than because of how authors writing fantasy stories centered on twins plot. One is always getting kidnapped or turned against his or her sibling or sent on a dangerous mission. Why the empathic bond then mysteriously falls silent or doesn’t work anymore or can only give partial and incomplete information rather than the exact information it gave before is never explained.

So, decide on the limitations. I don’t care what they are. In a very good story, the author doesn’t need to waste time infodumping about them, either. I just need to have the sense that she knows what they are, so that she doesn’t mysteriously abandon that magic she’s spent so much time extolling when she wants angst.

3) There’s a limitation to how stupid you can make other people about the twins’ appearance. Another favorite plot device involving twins is having one take the other’s place. The younger (evil) brother becomes the heir in the elder brother’s place. The elder (evil) sister marries the man her younger sister was supposed to marry. One of the twins fools a villain into believing that his or her captive sibling has escaped.

And, of course, nobody ever asks very, very simple questions such as, “Remember that discussion that we had last night, Your Highness?” or “Why are you looking disgusted with this locket when you told me that was what you wanted for a wedding gift?” or even “Let’s divide our guards in half and check the dungeons as well as chase this inexplicably free person, why don’t we?”

Impersonating another person requires far more than the right appearance and clothing. Yes, fantasy authors often don’t show that, but that is because many, many fantasy authors are enamored of this supposed plot “twist.” So they dumb down the other characters, instead, and make them accept the most stupid excuses, up to and including, “I mysteriously lost all my memories last night.”

*Limyaael sticks out tongue*

This is one place where the supposed empathic bond could actually come into play, you know. If the twins can read each other’s minds, then one could have access to all the other’s memories and personality traits. I don’t think it would work perfectly, but it would be a better disguise than lying all the damn time.

You can also let other people suspect. I’m sorry, but I refuse to buy that everyone is going to be fooled by the same eyes and hair and face and clothing. A spouse or long-time friend of one twin and not the other is going to notice all kinds of little mannerisms that are off. A lover will notice that the body is missing scars or tattoos or love bites or wrinkles or other distinguishing marks. A beloved pet could refuse to come because the other twin isn’t feigning the usual tone of voice well enough. And that’s not touching the immense store of gestures, in-jokes, memories, expressions, routines, and other things that make people who they are in social context. A twin who studied the other obsessively, was a good actor, and also had the empathic bond would have the best chance, and even then, I don’t think she could leap into the other’s role right off. It would take practice. Too easy, way too easy, to just think, “Well, she tilts her head to the right when she’s telling a lie, so that’s what I’ll do.” It’s one thing to imitate such small things consciously, another to move like that until the unconscious motions are part of you. Someone trying to act like the other twin in an exaggerated fashion would be more noticeable, not less.

It doesn’t even have to be conscious on the suspecting person’s part. A friend might accept that this was the same person, particularly if he doesn’t know that this woman has a twin, but he could feel uneasy without knowing why. He certainly doesn’t have to tumble into the usual trap of, “I will happily smile, and never ask a relevant question, until the author reveals the supposed plot twist and I can feel shocked and betrayed!”

As you might guess, I think this plot “twist” is really stupid. If authors are unwilling to present certain difficulties with and limitations for it, I think it should be tossed out the window.

4) If one twin is good and the other is evil, decide why. Too often, the evil twin is just jealous of the good twin. Oh, yes, later she’ll probably turn out to love murdering and torturing and raping people, and to want to take over the world besides, but the first evil thing she ever does is envy her beautiful, talented, thin, compassionate, magical twin Destined to Save the World.

Giving your protagonist an evil family is low characterization on the totem pole, the ultimate badly-reasoned and badly-characterized excuse to let her get away with everything. Their dialogue is predictable, their actions are predictable, they of course abuse her and kick her out and are jealous of her, and there is no sensible explanation for how the protagonist learned all her skills in an environment where no one would want to teach them to her, nor why she doesn’t act like an abused child or teenager could be expected to act. Usually the first turns out to come from friends and mentors who for some reason do nothing to stop the abuse, and the second from inherent Speshulness. “Anyone else would have blamed her family, but not Krystalynne! Oh, she is so brave and good!”

I loathe this plotline with a quiet but savage passion.

Think about that.

Now imagine how I feel about evil twins.

So, yeah. If you want one twin to be the protagonist and the other to be on the opposite side, reason them both out. Don’t show the good one accepting all the right opportunities and making all the right decisions without a mistake, thus implying that the evil one just wasn’t smart enough to act like she did. Don’t show the evil one just being inherently, generically Evil, Because. Don’t show the good one being good because she’s pretty and plays a musical instrument and is kind to little furry animals. Someone can be kind to little furry animals and massively unkind to other human beings, after all. And making your protagonist Good because of what she can do is the biggest problem, and the nadir, of all fantasy characterization, off the totem pole and sitting on the ground smearing itself with feces.

Also, ask yourself honestly why you want a good twin and an evil one. If it’s not for a good reason, scrap it.

5) Twins can be normal siblings, too, you know. So many authors become obsessed with twins looking like each other that they seem to forget to give them normal sibling traits. Either the twins are completely devoted to each other, or they hate each other forever and ever. Any possibly normal problem, such as jealousy, is thrown out of all proportion. Somehow, it’s wrong for people who look alike to feel any negative emotions towards each other.

Don’t look at me, I didn’t make this shit up.

Get over your obsession with the twins’ looks, please. Give them backgrounds and problems and conflicts and common traits that make sense for the story. And no, not just for their roles in the plot, either, or you wind up with the good twin and the evil one again. For the story, which is the world and the language and the style and the pace and the themes as well as the plot.

Here’s an exercise: First write out two characters who are normal siblings, a pair of brothers or a pair of sisters or a brother and sister born at the same time or near the same time. Then try saying that they’re identical or fraternal twins.

What changes? Do you feel you have to flip your whole conception of them just because they look alike? Geez, I hope not. That’d be really pathetically silly, wouldn’t it?

…Yes, that’s the point.

6) You are not the first author in the world to have thought of twincest. This is here just because I’m irritated with authors who seem to think that they’re doing something incredibly original and daring and risqué in making a pair of twins lovers. No, actually, you’re not. Other people have done it before.

Can you show a pair of twins becoming lovers for their own reasons? Can you show how their society reacts to it, and show it well? Can you show what consequences come of it? That is, can you get past the childish obsession with two people who look alike fucking each other and make them into lovers who would be interesting even if they weren’t twins?

Then thank you. If it’s just about looks, then good luck peddling your story to people who are interested in that.



Yes, that was bitchy. On the other hand, I’ve really started to dread stories with twins in them, because authors get so freaking hung up on their looks and nothing else.
Tags: character type rants, fantasy rants: autumn 2005

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[info]youraugustine

October 22 2005, 22:49:00 UTC 6 years ago

::lauuuuuuughing:: Three sets of twins. Two are fraternal. Siobhan and Magher are pretty much ordinary sisters; half the time, I forget they're twins and wind up referring to Magher as "older sister" or something like. Coral and Cora-Lee, less so, but they're also entirely normal.

As for my non-normal twins . . . oish. ::considers:: Actually, probably a lot of them can be traced to the frustrations, just like a lot of other stuff in my work. The "okay. We have mind-bonded twins. How would this actually WORK?"

[info]scriva

October 23 2005, 06:50:42 UTC 6 years ago

Considering the pair of twin sisters I know, the question of who is the older sister (by minutes or hours) can be part of the identity. So, calling the older sister "the older sister" is not too far-fetched.

[info]limyaael

6 years ago

[info]breathingbooks

October 22 2005, 23:02:41 UTC 6 years ago

"there is no sensible explanation for how the protagonist learned all her skills in an environment where no one would want to teach them to her, nor why she doesn’t act like an abused child or teenager could be expected to act"

Thank you for that. If the heroine's been mistreated her whole life, I don't think her One True Love/fuzzly wuzzly familiar/new bffs are going to fix all her problems by the end of the book.

"Anyone else would have blamed her family, but not Krystalynne! Oh, she is so brave and good!”

lol

[info]limyaael

October 26 2005, 00:53:12 UTC 6 years ago

That's my number one beef with abused hero/ines. The author goes whole-hog and produces a deeply traumatized person- who somehow heals the moment she gets whatever the author designed her to get. The hell?

[info]littlekasumi

October 22 2005, 23:11:21 UTC 6 years ago

First write out two characters who are normal siblings, a pair of brothers or a pair of sisters or a brother and sister born at the same time or near the same time. Then try saying that they’re identical or fraternal twins.

Woah. That is exactly how my sibling characters ended up. They were brothers running around in my head, identical if it wasn't for the length of hair, and then soon they became twins. Their relationship didn't change at all. The only 'power' they have is a kind of double-whammy fire attack but they've always fire magic in the first place. They are fire dragons anyway (dragons that can change into humans, but dragons all the same.)

[info]hieronymousb

October 22 2005, 23:11:57 UTC 6 years ago

I've never actually read any fantasy novels with twins in them. What are some in which these stereotypes occur?

[info]sanguine_paia

October 22 2005, 23:55:29 UTC 6 years ago

You could try Tamora Pierce's Lioness series. she has a set of boy-girl fraternal twins. they show a few of the cliches. also, she mentions yet another of the exact same thing in Trickster's Choice. don't even get me started on everything that irks me about THAT book...

[info]b2wm

6 years ago

[info]limyaael

6 years ago

[info]jsl32

October 22 2005, 23:13:41 UTC 6 years ago

rule-proving exception:GORMENGHAST!!!

hehe, whee. although, in a larger sense, the first two books do occasionally stumble on some of the points you've raised.

[info]suzene

October 22 2005, 23:17:22 UTC 6 years ago

I find your rants hella reassuring. I've got pair of characters who, for want of a better term, fill the 'twins' slot and they're guitly of none of the above.

[info]suzene

October 22 2005, 23:21:56 UTC 6 years ago

Er...'guilty'. Except for #5, a little, with one of them having a definite love-hate relationship with the other.

[info]limyaael

6 years ago

[info]holyschist

October 22 2005, 23:23:04 UTC 6 years ago

The mistaken identities one drives me nuts. I knew a set of identical twins growing up. At first I could only tell them apart because one had a tiny mole next to her mouth. By age 14, they looked similar, but assuredly not identical -- anyone could tell them apart. Part of it was personality, part of it wasn't.

Do identical twins eat the same, exercise the same, get the same haircuts, and wear the same makeup? No.

[info]youraugustine

October 22 2005, 23:25:52 UTC 6 years ago

::clicks tongue:: On the other hand, I knew a pair of identical twins in highschool. They never dressed the SAME. But they had a similar style.

Basically, I had to ask them which one was which at the beginning of each day. Because they did get the same haircuts (being basic boy short hair), and they did have the same basic daily regimen (worked on a farm), and while their personalities were quite different, their appearences really weren't.

[info]holyschist

6 years ago

[info]raleighj

6 years ago

[info]holyschist

6 years ago

[info]mhari

October 22 2005, 23:25:35 UTC 6 years ago

Whee. I think I've managed to avoid this one for the most part, anyway.

*pets her twin snarky bastards in unfinished!NaNo*

I find mistaken identities terrifically hot (er, in a narrative sense. mostly XD) but only if they're done well, because otherwise, dude. Where's the fun?

[info]limyaael

October 26 2005, 00:57:17 UTC 6 years ago

Yes. It always irks me when someone just accepts whatever ridiculous excuse there is for the switch. "Oh, you were supposedly thirty miles aawy. How did you get here?" "I had a fast horse." "Okay!!!!"

[info]klgaffney

October 22 2005, 23:41:59 UTC 6 years ago

i have a set of identical twins in real life. it tends to make the fantasy sort that much more annoying, especially if they're supposedly human/there's no outstanding reason for them to be omg!speshul other than the twinness. so, THANK YOU.

1) there's only been two stories with fantasy elements that revolved around a baby that actually entertained me, and they were both movies, willow, and a really odd anime, tokyo godfathers. i'd rather not read about them, thanks.

3) YES. mine are physically completely identical still at this point. they are 5 yrs old and there is no way in hell if you spend any longer than five minutes with them, that you could in any way mistake child for the other. as infants, yes possibly, altho the hospital actually mixed them up once, and for some reason i noticed. at a year old i once went most of day with one confused with the other, as they were wearing the wrong sets of clothing. at this point, they're actually very annoyed if you confuse them or call one by the wrong name, and they'll chew you out for it, "what's the matter with you, can't you see that i'm me, not her?" so yeah, you can be fooled some times, (i heard an adult pair of twins remark about how their parents once bathed one of them twice and the other escaped bath-free) and you can be fooled for brief periods of time, but there's just no way it's going to happen on as extensive a basis as some of these stories would lead you to believe, especially if you know you will.

5) and yes, they bicker. over all kinds of stupid silly shit, just like any other sisters, "i got that toy first!" but from what i've seen and heard from other twin mothers, mine are actually very good in that respect. what i am usually fascinated by is how easily and quickly they sort out their differences, actually. they just happen to have a good personality mesh, i think, thank god.


but for the most part, i think the nature of every twinset, like the nature of the individuals involved in the twin set should be portrayed as both similar to and at the same time, as unique, as every other human relationship out there.

[info]klgaffney

October 22 2005, 23:45:16 UTC 6 years ago

especially if you know you will.

especially if you know them WELL. grr. argh.

[info]tj_dragon

October 22 2005, 23:47:14 UTC 6 years ago

Wow that was great! I actually have triplet characters but they don't start as infants, they don't look alike and they are regular siblings. The only mind bond comes from the brother but that's cos he's a magic-user and he not only bonds with his sisters but everyone else he knows and it's mostly one-sided unless they're magic too.

As for point 5 I did know one identical twin (they were creepily identical who were competitive almost to the point of hatred. The guy I knew could rattle off stats of who was best at what and apparently when they had fights it was just bizaare. Of course I'm sure there's a reason for that attitude.

I read somewhere that parents should NOT treat twins the same and make them do the same activities because even from toddlerhood they can become resentful of the other; after all if you're forced to spend you time with one person and you have to share all your toys with them you'd get pissed off too.
Dressing them the same is also bad, and frankly a little tacky.

Point 6 was good, twin sex should be discouraged. The worst book I read had a scene and it creeped me out, a lot! My brother is (technically) a twin and the idea of sibling sex is just icky. Of course that book also had crappy fantasy elements and little other plot.

Thanks these rants are great and i look forward to them.

[info]pariyal

October 23 2005, 20:04:11 UTC 6 years ago

I read somewhere that parents should NOT treat twins the same and make them do the same activities because even from toddlerhood they can become resentful of the other; after all if you're forced to spend you time with one person and you have to share all your toys with them you'd get pissed off too.
Dressing them the same is also bad, and frankly a little tacky.


My daughters R and M are fraternal twins, and if they were seventeen months apart instead of seventeen minutes people would think "yeah, sisters, probably". They've been in the same class since they were two and a half, and when they go to high school next year they absolutely want to be in different classes: they don't hate each other, but it's been enough. Also, they've taken up different hobbies: R has started clarinet lessons and M figure skating.

We've only ever dressed them the same at really formal occasions when they were very small, and more often than not N had the same clothes a size larger. (Most of not dressing them the same was pure expediency: we got lots of hand-me-downs, and only one of each. But clothes we bought them new were usually different too.)

As for twins in my writing-- the one I couldn't finish, or even continue, had one (identical) twin in what amounts to a nunnery and the other one in a knightly order; the WIP has a good and an evil twin, but I have reasons for the good one to be good and the evil one to be evil (mostly, who they imprinted on as boys) and the only use I make of their being twins is that the evil one's friends think the good one is him but has gone over to the enemy, and they knock him out so the protagonist has to do the job on her own.

[info]limyaael

6 years ago

[info]tj_dragon

6 years ago

[info]grimmerlove

October 22 2005, 23:55:37 UTC 6 years ago

My story is going to have a pair of twins in it as well. Something that irritates me about twins is that a lot of people make them act the same (or, for that matter, as polar opposites, like you said, good and evil) in their stories. Like my biology teacher said, it's half nature, half nurture. Half of how you act is given to you by your parents and half is provided by the environment you live in. Unless they had the exact same life, which is, of course, impossible, then they shouldn't act the same. My opinion on the matter, anyway.

Oh, and can you please add me to your friends list on this journal and your writing journals? Thanks!

[info]sanguine_paia

October 23 2005, 00:09:47 UTC 6 years ago

another great rant, as always. This one in particular, got me. It's one of my major pet peeves. Speshul twins just annoy the snot outta me. THANK YOU!! Tamora Pierce is the only author i can think of at the moment that does this sort of thing on a regular basis, but i know there are others. perhaps i just didnt finish the books once i realized there was yet another set of twins in it... :\

[info]slobbit

October 23 2005, 00:57:11 UTC 6 years ago

Oh, gosh about the bond.

I've got telepathy in my world, but it's practically bounded, I think. You've got to be hanging around someone a loooong time before you can do anything for conversation without touching them. And there's all sorts of rules of courtesy involved.

And an author can get up to all sorts of hijinks with it. I mean, if she's shut herself off, and he can't read her, he's thinking, "WTF did I do wrong? She's not "talking" to me." And she's just having her period, and that's kind of personal, you know, so there's no way she's letting him anywhere near her thoughts . . .

But I don't have twins. If I did, that would be interesting because they'd start off with one strike against them, their mom having given birth to multiples "like an animal."

Huh. *ponders*

Nope, still no twins.

[info]tiamet

October 23 2005, 01:10:13 UTC 6 years ago

So many good points! Most twin stories are so bad that I can't even read them anymore.

My two best friend's growing up (and currently)were twin boys so I think I have a good grasp of how twins act, while I think most authors try to romanticize them. Point 5 is a very good one. My twins would beat the crap out of each other, but as soon as someone else tries to beat one the other would jump in. Like all siblings they can hate each other while still loving each other. I think twins should be written just like you would any other pair of siblings...they just happen to share the same birth date and sometimes looks. That's another point...twins don't always have to be identical. Even if they are the same sex they can look different.

My question is why do authors so often have the twins be the only children. Twins do often have other siblings. I would love to see the interactions of the twins between each other and with other siblings. And not just the two of them as a pair and the other sibling. Maybe show one twin and how he/she feels about an older/younger sibling. Maybe one twin gets along really well with a younger sister and the other twin gets along great with an older brother. Maybe even have one twin get along better with a different sibling then he/she does his/her twin.

And don't even get me started on twins with matching names! I hate that in books and in real life!

[info]kythiaranos

October 23 2005, 13:07:25 UTC 6 years ago

I think you're right on about authors romanticizing twin-ness. As a mom of twins, I can tell that most authors who write about twins have really minimal experience in actual twins. It's probably wish-fulfillment. :-)

[info]limyaael

6 years ago

[info]mindelemental

October 23 2005, 01:52:31 UTC 6 years ago

Out of morbid curiosity, just how common is 6?

I can think of three examples offhand: Jaime/Cersei (the one everyone knows), two assassin twins from some forgettable fantasy short story, and one, from a Storm Contantine novel, that I could be mistaken about - I'm just going from my memory of reader reviews on amazon.com.

[info]londonkds

October 23 2005, 09:44:15 UTC 6 years ago

Inevitable in fanfic whenever you have twins in canon.

[info]beccastareyes

October 23 2005, 02:11:50 UTC 6 years ago

Oddly enough, I am now reminded of my youth spent reading Robert Heinlein's juvenille novels (aka the ones without the sex). He actually did the twin bond thing except it was actually interesting (words only, not obvious unless trained, actually used for something other than fluff, and not specifically twin-related (though it was more common in twins)). The two twins also had a believeable relationship -- the hero (Pat) was a bit jealous of the fact his brother (Tom) seemed to be the charismatic social one, but he still loved him (and found it was easier once they weren't on the same planet). Of coruse, they lost that a bit thanks to the fact Pat was sent off to the stars and Tom stayed home, and by the time Pat got back, he was in his mid-twenties and Tom was an old man*.

* Real physics dude. This problem is even called 'The Twin Paradox'.

[info]erythros

October 23 2005, 04:31:11 UTC 6 years ago

No, no, no. Pat was the coward who stayed home, and TOM was the one who went off being awesome.

... ... ... ... And then there was LazLor of the Long family, or Caspol Jones: the classic Twins Who Are So Speshul, Heinlein Style.

[info]erythros

6 years ago

[info]sligking

October 23 2005, 02:18:29 UTC 6 years ago

Thank you, oh thank you.
I am so fucking sick of being a twin used as a shitty plot device. I've met a few actual twins in my life, and they're no usually different than other siblings. The only twins in my story are distinctly different, just obviously related.
Twin A (May): Female, athletic, thoughtful but emotional with repsect to her friends, adventurer, main character.
Twin B (Sorn): Male, athletic, intelligent but extremely impulsive, pretty damn sedentary, minor character.

[info]limyaael

October 26 2005, 01:03:03 UTC 6 years ago

Can I ask how Sorn is athletic and yet sedentary?

[info]sligking

6 years ago

[info]silentstone7

October 23 2005, 02:25:39 UTC 6 years ago

I have twins... they don't look alike. They would seem very different to anyone who didn't know them, but they share a lot of the same personalities.
When I developed the characters, I took the same basic personalities, and worked them from the angle of two similar people raised differently. One makes friends with everyone and is very charismatic, the other only has a few close friends and isnt so outgoing, but they'd both go great distances for close friends, and greater distances for each other. (Unless of course one stole the other's lunch or something, then the bicker and argue and make life difficult.)
I was going to do a set of identical twins, but... I'd be too tempted to make the two twins with the demensions of one character.

I think siamese twins would be interesting. Or one twin having a birth defect. Maybe one (normal) twin caring for another less-healthy twin! (Although I do like the twin paradox idea. As well as the twins being socially less acceptable idea.)

[info]andrusi

October 23 2005, 02:54:12 UTC 6 years ago

#5 reminds me of something that's been bugging me for years.

If you have twin characters, there are two possibilities.
A) They are identical twins. This means that they are genetically the same. Any and all genetic traits will be the same between the two.
B) They are fraternal twins. They are simply siblings who happened to be in the womb at the same time, and thus there is no need for them to be "identical" any more than any other pair of siblings.

For some reason, people continue to insist on making up twins who are completely identical except one's a girl and the other's a boy. I suppose in theory you could have fraternal twins who randomly turn out this way, but it's going to be the exception rather than the rule. If they're identical, they're the same sex. If they're different sexes, they're not identical. That's just how it works.

[info]ariescelestial

October 23 2005, 06:02:40 UTC 6 years ago

I had the misfortune of actually knowing a pair of fraternal twins that were opposite sex and looked identical, at least when they were young. I had to ask every time, "which one's the boy?" It kind of weirded me out too because I was studying genetics at the time, so I knew they shouldn't look anymore alike than normal siblings do (and me and my sisters...we don't even look like the same family unless you already KNOW we're family lol).

Now that they're both preteens it's easy to spot which one's which, but man was that weird.

[info]limyaael

6 years ago

[info]duckmole86

6 years ago

[info]clayin

October 23 2005, 03:02:58 UTC 6 years ago

I have a set of twins in one of the stories that I'm working on.
One of them is a mage (and the narrator) and the other is a forrester. The forrester gets the same treatment as the non-twin siblings - he's part of the family, but the story isn't about him. The forrester isn't even ON the journey - he's in their home village while his brother is off nearly getting himself killed, and he's just as surprised about his twin's crazy adventures as anyone else.
A couple of my friends in high school were twins. Their second grade teacher literally told one of them that she "was just a clone" of her sister. Her reasoning? The other sister had been born first!
People are so brain-wrenchingly stupid sometimes.

[info]kawakiisakazuki

October 23 2005, 11:38:43 UTC 6 years ago

Their second grade teacher literally told one of them that she "was just a clone" of her sister.
What an awful thing to say. You could make a case that identical twins are children of a single parent, who reproduced asexually... but their mother will probably not like being called grandma :)

[info]clayin

6 years ago

[info]freyalorelei

October 23 2005, 04:25:27 UTC 6 years ago

Like I've said before, I AM a twin. Identical, to be exact. (I'm actually six inches shorter and quite a bit thinner than my sister, due to medical problems. We're genetically identical, though.)

I've heard all the stupid twin questions: "If I poke you, does she feel it?" (Said in all seriousness.) "Can you read each other's minds?" (Ditto.) "So, which one of you is the evil twin?" (...sigh.) "Do you share clothes?" (Well, I'm about ten sizes smaller than my sister, so I'd safely say...no.) "Do you have a secret/made-up language just for the two of you?" (WTF? Do twins really do that shit?)

I swear, it's all the fault of those stupid Sweet Valley High books. Die, Wakefield twins, die.

5) Twins can be normal siblings, too, you know.

YES. THANK YOU.

[info]savpixie

October 23 2005, 07:11:40 UTC 6 years ago

some twins do make up a gibberish version of english when they're small, but it isn't common.

[info]kadaria

6 years ago

[info]erythros

October 23 2005, 04:37:24 UTC 6 years ago

THANK YOU.

I love twin-rants. The whole reason I tried to write Graycloak triplets is to try the multiple-birth thing and take the stupid cliche to its logical conclusion. (And then Dion and Orestes happening to be brothers, born at the same time, who are totally different and whose 'special communication' consist of letters. "Dear Orestes, I put a bug down the back of Yan, Fourteenth Son, today. Love, Dion." "Dear Dion, That sounds dumb. Love, Orestes.")

That was the other reason I loved Eriel/Lament and Jesserena/Sorel so much: they were ORDINARY SISTERS, who happened to be born at the same time. <3 More people need to GET that.

[info]limyaael

October 26 2005, 01:05:41 UTC 6 years ago

*grin* I did think about including Eriel-Lament and Jesserena-Sorel as examples, but decided it would be bragging. :)

But yes, that's a possible seventh point: the twins can just ignore each other completely, especially if they have different lives and interests. I've met people who would not drop everything and run off to the other side of the world if they found out they had long-lost twin siblings. Not everyone would.

[info]deathglare

October 23 2005, 06:45:29 UTC 6 years ago

Had at least six sets of twins in my class back in those elementry and high school days. That many in a town of roughly three thousand, I still find that highly unusual(more like how the fuck probability got twisted about for that) to this day. Half of the sets weren't indentical thankfully so it was easy to keep track of them, the others for a good long time dressed and acted in mostly the same way. The hell of trying to keep everything straight in one's head. Now several years later Only one of those sets are the same in any way, the other two have changed alot.

Given some time to hunt down a yearbook and force myself to remember a few things back in those days, I'll make a further commenting on this. Because I'm sure some people are wondering how the hell group dynamics would work with so many twins and I'm sure not many stories have been written involving multiple yet.

Well if there are novels that have whole slew of twins in them, I'd like to read them for the hell of it.

[info]savpixie

October 23 2005, 07:18:14 UTC 6 years ago

i hate #3. no one seems to be able to not rip off the prince and the pauper. also, i've known at least three sets of identical twins. it wouldn't work. i've met guys who'll look at a pair of twins and go "she's the hot one." by the time they get into school, you can usually tell them apart. one will have a slightly thinner face, or one will like to be out in the sun more so she'll have more freckles, or one will wear glasses. it's pretty easy once you get to know them, but for me remembering which twinface goes with which name is hard, so i never use thier names unless i'm absolutely sure.

[info]alex_von_cercek

October 23 2005, 08:41:57 UTC 6 years ago

Quite frankly, if there's a mind bond, I want to see at least one of the two twins dead before the end of the book.
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