Limyaael ([info]limyaael) wrote,
@ 2005-11-15 22:55:00
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Current mood: cranky
Entry tags:fantasy rants: autumn 2005, rants on nature

Getting nature more involved in your fantasy novel
This is pretty much a grab-bag, not in any particular order but as the points caught my attention.



1) If your world is low-technology, you might make it feel that way. Many, many fantasy worlds seem to simply have invisible high tech. Among the things that should receive more notice than they do:

-How people preserve and transport food.
-Burial of the dead.
-Disposal of waste.
-How houses get cleaned.
-How insects are dealt with.
-Care of animals (see point 2).
-Healing of wounds and disease.
-Heat/cold and resisting them.
-Shelter/protection from weather.
-Finding/use of water.
-Where the smoke from fires goes.
-Aftermath of weather (including fallen branches, mudslides, and blocked trails).
-Making of ‘basic’ products (metal, fabric, paper, glass, furniture, vehicles).

I’ve heard authors complain that they can’t possibly attend to every detail of how characters pick their noses and shit, and it’s true that it’d be boring to read a novel that consisted solely of that. But I get irritated when the author a) attends to some details and not others, b) makes the point that magic is not used for simple everyday tasks but then doesn’t explain how the simple everyday tasks actually get accomplished, and/or c) doesn’t even think about these issues because we, ourselves, are so cocooned within high tech.

Has it rained in the night, towards the end of autumn in a temperate climate that has deciduous trees? There will be wet leaves on the ground to deal with, wet grass, mud—which means slick footing for horses—branches dripping on you if you’re in a forest, puddles to splash through, sudden low-lying wet depressions you don’t see and simply stumble into, and many, many other things. This is one of the no-brainers, really, since we can see this even stepping outside after a storm on Earth (in a temperate climate at the end of autumn that has deciduous trees). Ignoring it in a fantasy world simply because we get in cars in our own is stupid.

So is just assuming that characters will have fresh food available whenever they need it without explaining how it got there, that there are invisible high-functioning toilets, that no insect ever bites anyone in hot climates, that a wound sheds a bit of blood that’s cleansed immediately when a healer happens along and gives no more trouble, that a hut with no air conditioning and no fire in the middle of winter is somehow the warmest thing on the planet, that a fire lit in the middle of a cave would not spread its smoke out and fill the cave up, and on and on and on.

These are the kinds of details you need to consider. Or they will bite you on the butt and make your fantasy world neither fish nor fowl—not attending to its needs with technology or magic because that would be “cheating,” but not true to the apparently hardscrabble way of life you’re proposing in the place of “cheating.” You’re certainly welcome to take solutions from history, or to do throwaway references or nods to practicality. No one says you have to make the preservation of food the focus of your story. But don’t mention it at all, and your twenty-first-century prejudices are showing.

2) Animals don’t take care of themselves. I’ve already ranted about how many fantasy societies, according to their level of technology and casual mentions on the authors’ part, should depend on animals more than they do. I think everybody knows how I feel about that by now. So we’ll just accept that there should be real horses, and not cars with four legs, in your fantasy, and concentrate on something nearer and dearer to my heart: how those horses vanish when the author isn’t focused on them.

If you have important nonhumans in your story—“important” defined here under the category of “plot device” or “plausible explanation” as well as character--you need to get used to keeping track of them. This applies to telepathic companions as well as ordinary animals, by the way. I’ve lost count of the number of telepathic cats or dragons or wolves or birds who just seem to wander off when the author isn’t paying attention, then show up miraculously in the nick of time to rescue their owners or soothe their wangst. Never mind that they got left in the last town sixteen leagues behind when their owners rode off on horses and haven’t been thought of since, and I’d think a cat, at least, would have a little difficulty making up that distance in a few hours. There they are, away and appearing again at the author’s will.

Then there’s the horses who get brought into a city and vanish. There’s no record of the characters even dismounting. “Where did the horses go?” I think, and flip through the book, wondering if they have headed off to a secret horse convocation where they will complain bitterly about how their owners treat them. (Reading about that would often be more interesting than reading about the main plot). Large animals need care, particularly in a city. What happened to them?

Even smaller animals need to be paid attention to. Say the protagonist Wuvs Her Kitty. Then she gets attention from her love interest. Why, then, can she never think about the cat for the rest of the book? Was it just a convenient way to get the reader to sympathize with her? Why, of course it was. Kitty can starve to death when he’s served his purpose, and good riddance to him.

Yes, we often tire of animals and dump them out or give them away or think they need less care than they do. In a fantasy world where someone is actually sharing his tiny hut with an animal or depends on it for food or to get him from place to place, that is not an option.

3) If you play merry havoc, actually illustrate the havoc. One way of saying, “My, the Dark Lord is evil” is to have him screw around with the seasons. Suddenly there’s blistering heat where there should be cold, or vice versa. Or he withers the harvest the moment it appears. Or the harvest does that itself because the wrong king is on the throne—‘scuse me.

That plotline is officially the second most clichéd plotline in existence right now. Only the secret heir seeking his heritage is worse.

(Yes, I feel better now).

Yet no one and nothing ever takes lasting damage from this in a badly-constructed fantasy world. No one starves because they were depending on the crops for food. Birds don’t migrate the wrong way or try to raise extra broods. Invading species don’t wander in from other territories because they’re hungry, or because the screwy weather is nicer to them in the protagonists’ home ground. The flooded river doesn’t destroy the home of anyone important. The drought is set right by a few rainfalls, never mind that cracked, dry soil is a bad, bad sign, and one storm is not going to cure it. (I want to see someone write a fantasy set in the kind of clay country that’s common in Kentucky, particularly where I live. Sure, it grows good oaks, but let it go too long without rain, and then get a doozy of a storm. It turns to mud as thick and clinging as, and exactly the color of, dog shit. It does not smell as bad, but that’s its only saving grace).

Want to screw with the seasons? Screw with them, and then show how they’ve screwed with the rest of the world.

4) Remember that not every climate is temperate. Pretty obvious, this, but that means that if you’re writing a fantasy set in, oh, a desert, and you have weeping willows and orchids planted there, it’s going to look, um, kind of funny.

It’s actually not that hard to do research on species native to the kind of territory you’re wrting for. I think that, if someone wants to base a fantasy culture on a certain nation or land on Earth, they would do well to adopt more than the human culture wholesale. A human culture is formed by and reacts to the ecosystems around it, particularly in a world without global travel (see point 5). If you write an Aztec-themed novel, and yet the only real connection is a god who demands human sacrifice, with your typical medieval fantasy culture built around it, you’re missing out on an awful lot. Hummingbirds, for example, and a city built in the middle of a lake.

Short point, because I don’t see why I should have to argue this. Grabbing at random tree names and animals one is already familiar with, like crows in a lot of fantasy novels, is so much less interesting than a place that actually appears to have a functioning ecosystem.

5) Human culture should not always be completely separate from nature. There are a number of reasons for this:

-It doesn’t always make sense. If these are people represented as living in harmony with nature, then why does the author show them as fearing it or ignoring it? (“Harmony with nature” is easy to say, hard to do).
-The specific nature surrounding the culture will influence it, sometimes down to the linguistic level. If a language has a word for “wolf” and not “raccoon,” that should give you a clue right there about where the language evolved, where wolves evolved, where raccoons evolved (even if it’s just “not here,”) and where the culture began.
-Metaphors and similes are a wonderful thing. They are far easier to develop if you’re not just saddling everyone with tired clichés like “as the crow flies.” What other phrase might refer to distance in this culture? What other kind of bird? What other species of animal altogether?
-Why does the culture/nature divide need to be present? Why aren’t there more animistic fantasy cultures, for example? They certainly existed in our own history. I have no clue why more authors don’t use them. Wait, yes, I do: twenty-first-century prejudice against letting nature have any place of importance showing again.

Think, please, before you make every character either a peasant who hates and fears the natural world, or a “hardened traveler” whose notice of nature extends to miraculously lighting fires from wet wood.

6) Nature provides a neat place to exercise your physical description muscles. And yes, I am prejudiced. Hi. *waves little prejudiced flag* I find well-done descriptions of natural scenery far more fascinating than endless descriptions of clothes or lists of who is related to whom.

People tend to sandblast Tolkien for this, to say his writing is bloated because he spends a lot of time on trees, on mountains, on forests, on volcanoes, on the plains of Gorgoroth. Yet these same people happily read fantasy novels that waste pages on history infodump that can be easily worked into the story with more grace and swiftness. Forgive me if I don’t always prefer the umpteenth rehash of how the gods made the world to the description of Ithilien’s greenery.

I don’t think it’s description itself that’s the problem. I think it’s a) description that’s just plan bad (poorly-written, hard to visualize, snapping the constraints of viewpoint) and b) description that doesn’t need to be there.

What does need to be there? Your setting. Because, hello, we are often creating whole new worlds here. And yes, that does mean history and culture and mythology. It also means ecosystems, geographies, biospheres, the native terrain, the crops, the natural resources.

Paying attention to only the sociocultural aspects of a setting detracts from the whole, and is often more a reflection of the author’s own prejudices than a true mirror of how the characters think. Please to not be doing that.

7) You can create new species. You can also not do that. It amuses me how many fantasy authors think magic is “cheating,” even when it’s highly restricted and elaborately defined, and yet think nothing of just slinging made-up names of plants and animals and geographical formations into the story. Once again, magic matters because it might affect the humans. But nature is seen as not affecting the humans (oh bloody fucking ha bloody ha), so making up any old shit you please is fine.

Why not go and find out an exotic real-world species that you can use in this context? You might have to change the name—maybe “elf owl” doesn’t make sense because this world doesn’t have elves—but you can do enough research that it fits well into your story’s environment and matters to the characters.

Is it silly to change the name? I don’t think it’s any sillier than just creating “mudra wood” because you’re too lazy to research mahogany—particularly when mudra wood really is a random reference and ceases to matter to the story after that. We’re never going to see any mudra trees. We’re never going to visit the country that exports it. We’re never going to know why it’s highly-prized, for its rarity or the expense of shipping it or its beauty or something else. We’re never going to know whether mudra trees are really as common as dirt and the merchants who pretend it’s rare are laughing up their sleeves at everyone who buys it for fantastically large prices. It’s no more than an author’s brain-fart.

If fantasy authors really are intent on working within limits and not cheating with magic, then I don’t see why cheating with nature is any better.



Extroverted characters next.




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[info]erythros
2005-11-16 04:14 am UTC (link)
MEMORIED

Thank you very much. These are all excellent points to keep in mind when writing anything awesome (like an arctic city full of hungry Graycloaks who need sanitation systems and boiled snow).

So, how does point seven relate to tiassa? *radiates innocence*

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[info]limyaael
2005-11-18 01:40 am UTC (link)
Well, I think tiassa have wings, don't they? And they're the symbols of inspiration? So, obviously, the niche couldn't exactly have been filled by panthers. :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]crossbow1
2005-11-16 04:28 am UTC (link)
Cool. I really enjoy these rants.

Horrible example of the technology thing: In one of Anne McCaffrey's series, the characters, with almost no tools, construct a way to smelt iron. Which apparently was just lying on the ground. And before I read this, I had JUST seen a film in archaeology class about how we DON'T KNOW how people first smelted iron. That technology is lost. We don't know how to do it without modern technology anymore. When we try to recreate it, what we mostly get is giand exploding kilns. AND these people in the novel wouldn't have even had the materials available to build a furnace hot enought to smelt iron, and they had no hard wood so they couldn't have even built a fire hot enough. But nevertheless, there they went merrily smelting iron for three books!

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[info]l_clausewitz
2005-11-16 05:42 am UTC (link)
Being a fellow archaeology enthusiast, I can sympathize with your plight.

Especially since I'm amazed at how often fantasy people actually melt iron and cast it into molds, when the technology to do that was largely unknown in Europe until the 15th or 16th century. And the writers didn't show the blacksmith working the damned thing further, which meant that those cast things were really cast iron, which was very hard but also damned brittle. Imagine a sword that sends sharp splinters flying into your eyes every time it receives a blow, even on the flat--that is, if it doesn't just break outright.

All that while the information on pre-blast furnace smelting practices is available just a click away on the Web, or a couple of miles away in the nearest library.

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(no subject) - [info]saadiira, 2005-11-16 02:41 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]digoraccoon, 2005-11-17 12:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]crossbow1, 2005-11-16 04:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]pirouette, 2005-11-17 03:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]l_clausewitz, 2005-11-17 04:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]pirouette, 2005-11-17 04:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2005-11-18 01:41 am UTC

[info]mushroomhunterd
2005-11-16 04:33 am UTC (link)
Perfect timing with this rant. I'm cautiously planning a story where the dominant culture is animistic, and I'm having a lovely time trying to work out the logistics of the main 'city'. Not to mention the religion, the social hirachy, the relations between the genders...

This is why I don't write fantasy other than urban very often - it's so much freaking work! *goes back to making notes*

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]limyaael
2005-11-18 01:42 am UTC (link)
It is work, but I think urban fantasy is a better shortcut than some of the others- like just snatching so many Western attitudes into fantasy without questioning them.

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(no subject) - [info]farmercuerden, 2005-11-21 04:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mushroomhunterd, 2005-11-22 10:57 am UTC

[info]kay_willow
2005-11-16 04:34 am UTC (link)
I am ABSOLUTELY going to keep that first checklist in mind. Most of my high fantasy (where I create my own worlds) is blandly temperate climate, but the one I'm writing for NaNo -- located smack in the middle of a freak weather system in this country that results in a more or less perpetuating sequence of storms. And it's a foundation for their culture and their religion and their use of electricity before anyone else in their world can harness it, but some of that first checklist? Animals? The dead?

I haven't given any thought to it! Thank you for making me take a second look.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]limyaael
2005-11-18 01:42 am UTC (link)
You're welcome. This is the kind of thing I wonder about most when the author goes to blatant lengths to make it clear that magic is rare and high tech even rarer. But everyone seems to get along the same way they would as if they had high magic and high tech.

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[info]woodburner
2005-11-16 04:36 am UTC (link)
“Where did the horses go?” I think, and flip through the book, wondering if they have headed off to a secret horse convocation where they will complain bitterly about how their owners treat them. (Reading about that would often be more interesting than reading about the main plot).

YOU SHOULD WRITE THIS STORY. Seriously :D

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[info]duckmole86
2005-11-17 05:48 am UTC (link)
You should indeed. If you'd rather do that than the werewolf one, that'd be fine by me.

--Mauri

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2005-11-18 01:43 am UTC

[info]pyrasaur
2005-11-16 04:39 am UTC (link)
Yet another instance where I boggle at my fellow writers. There are people who don't like figuring niggly detailed things like ecosystems? Aww, come on, that's three-quarters the fun of worldbuilding! It's not just the odd dragon tacked onto a random rabble of Earth animals, it's little poisonous critters and foraging furry things and different edible/medicinal plants and what eats what! It's like putting together a puzzle, except that you make your own pieces with random bits of...everything, really. No limits! Creativity!

And it takes all of 10 seconds with Google to find Earth history, mythology or biology for inspiration. My world has sylphs, which are like little deer/dragonfly hybrids that live in the mountains and eat lichen, and they have camofluage colouring so that while on the ground and vulnerable, they can just hold still and they'll look like a stick. And I had fun working them into the story. Wandering around outdoors does tend to lead to random critter sightings, after all. I dunno, maybe these nature-phobic, animal-ignorant writers just never, ever leave their houses.

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[info]saadiira
2005-11-16 02:44 pm UTC (link)
Agreed. Back in the D&D days, one of the biggest complaints could be lack of realistic ecosystems. I'd spend days killing myself not just to build up a world and adventure, but to make an ecosystem that actually WORKED.

Yeah, you've got monsters walking around in some underground place. Well, in absence of adventurers...what the HELL have they been eating?

I LOVED researching cave ecosystems, temperate forests, rain forests, and jungles for that sort of thing. I then used the information when I wrote stories, too.

-Dira-

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(no subject) - [info]pirouette, 2005-11-17 04:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]farmercuerden, 2005-11-21 05:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]seawolf10, 2005-11-21 11:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2005-11-18 01:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyrasaur, 2005-11-18 03:16 am UTC

[info]l_clausewitz
2005-11-16 05:19 am UTC (link)
Nature provides a neat place to exercise your physical description muscles.

That has a funny additional connotation, you know--since many fantasy writers are more occupied with writing about their (male) heroes' muscles than about ther (female) DLI's clothes, mostly because the latter are almost nonexistent. That might work in sword-and-sorcery, but when it seeps into "mainstream" fantasy it really stings my eyes.

For that matter, Jordan has probably never paid any attention to how Berelain could have walked the halls of the Stone of Tear without having her clothes actually falling off her shoulders. Or did she change just outside his door and let all the guards stare?

Back to the real point of the discussion. I've seen amateur fantasy writers do lavish descriptions of nature that actually work, of course. Unfortunately, the great majority of them tend to be the descriptions of the stream or the waterfall where the protagonist (or his/her DLI) is bathing. Is it a coincidence, or is there really a pattern?

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[info]limyaael
2005-11-18 01:45 am UTC (link)
See, high fantasy spends a lot of time on clothes, even outside of Jordan. I laugh most when the author goes to great lengths to declare that her heroine disapproves of dressing up (thus marking her as Smart and Not Like All Those Other Whores), and then describes the pretty, pretty gown she gets put in- against her will, of course.

It's true that the description of everything becomes sharper when the DLI is involved. But I wish more authors thought nature was worth describing for its own sake.

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[info]cktraveler
2005-11-16 05:42 am UTC (link)
You're making me think of the Darksword series by Weis & Hickman now -- a world where a mage's magical reserves are strictly limited, and only the rarest kind of mage is able to produce more of it (becoming quickly exhausted in the process). Technology is so hated and forbidden that the use of any tool, even a simple lever or a dinner fork, is blasphemous and obscene.

So, umm, how exactly do we have the capital city stuffed with magic that would be spectacular in a Marvel Comic, let alone in a world whose rules are set up to make magic incredibly precious?

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[info]lyorn
2005-11-16 11:43 am UTC (link)
Technology is so hated and forbidden that the use of any tool, even a simple lever or a dinner fork, is blasphemous and obscene.

Wow. That would make the world pre-ancient stone age?

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(no subject) - [info]cktraveler, 2005-11-16 04:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]rhjunior, 2005-11-17 06:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lyorn, 2005-11-17 08:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2005-11-18 01:46 am UTC

[info]flamavis
2005-11-16 05:42 am UTC (link)
I have to admit, i have been guilty of the getting rid of animals bits - but in my own defence, i was fourteen at the time. :P

My character had a goat. After a while, i wanted to get rid of said goat. After all, she was going to be wandering around all over the place, and she couldn't havesome goat with her, could she? So i just had her say, "Here, you look after my goat for me" to some other character.

Which, in hindsight, was really stupid. For one thing, i'd made a big deal about how she felt responsible for the goat. If you do need to get rid of some animal, then you just can give any old reason. it has to be plausible; it has to make sense.

And, for another thing, it probably would have been more interesting to see how she dealt with having some goat along with her. :D

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[info]shaycaron
2005-11-16 06:12 am UTC (link)
Yay, more rantage! ^_^ Have posted this rant and the previous one to the site.

Oh, and I just found this page on RinkWorks today. Thought you might enjoy it. *grin*

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[info]goldjadeocean
2005-11-16 06:51 am UTC (link)
Did you draw a map for your novel which includes places named things like "The Blasted Lands" or "The Forest of Fear" or "The Desert of Desolation" or absolutely anything "of Doom"?

I love that exam.

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(no subject) - [info]alanahikarichan, 2005-11-16 12:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]saadiira, 2005-11-16 02:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jessara40k, 2005-11-17 10:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]alanahikarichan, 2005-11-17 12:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]jessara40k, 2005-11-17 12:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]alanahikarichan, 2005-11-17 01:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2005-11-18 01:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]farmercuerden, 2005-11-21 05:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]farmercuerden, 2005-11-21 05:13 am UTC

[info]ankewehner
2005-11-16 07:29 am UTC (link)
Hm. I don't see anything wrong with inventing animal species.
If I'm stuffing a dozen intelliget species in a world, why not animals? ;)

But I find, say, a spell for getting rid of fleas way more useful than one for flinging fireballs, so it might just even out.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]saadiira
2005-11-16 02:48 pm UTC (link)
Gods, yes. I actually had one of those. And I had one to attract fleas, too. lol.

Of course, at the time, I was gaming a whole lot in Florida. If you've ever lived there, you'd know why I had fleas on the brain. :).

-Dira-

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2005-11-18 01:48 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]pyrasaur, 2005-11-18 03:28 am UTC
Sounds familiar - [info]karenrei, 2006-03-27 11:36 pm UTC
Re: Sounds familiar - [info]pyrasaur, 2006-03-28 12:34 am UTC

[info]issen4
2005-11-16 07:45 am UTC (link)
Invisible high-tech, hee. I want that. Nice rant: I've always wanted to know more about nature in low tech societies--if you give me a jungle, I want to know about malaria or its equivalents--and also people dying from food poisoning and and tyhoid. Otherwise I'm reminded of a theme park.

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[info]lots42
2005-11-16 09:13 am UTC (link)
I would be happy as a clam to read a fantasy story where the peasents aren't -this- close to starving.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Cause feudalism Sucked, that's why.
[info]rhjunior
2005-11-17 06:34 am UTC (link)
To the contrary, it always gets ME when they show people in a medieval society that are impossibly healthy, well-fed, and might we add BATHED to that list of improbabilities?

Regardless of technological or magical level, peasants in a feudal system are ALWAYS going to be -this- close to starving.....because Feudalism, like communism, fascism, and all the other oppressive "isms" of the past, does not produce fat, happy, prosperous people. In fact in practice the systems of communism and fascism worked out to many of the same practices and methods and rules of feudalism--- a small, elite, unaccountable ruling class who owned everything, and a mass population of the poor, unwashed and starving who literally owned nothing, not even the farms they slaved on or the clothes on their backs, and who could be killed on a whim.

This is not the foundation for a thriving prosperous society.

Feudalism was a wretched state of existence for the majority of people--- and even for the barons and kings it was pretty lousy. Even kings ate meat that had spoiled in the sun, and died of complaints that would be a minor inconvenience today because the doctors of the age were as ignorant as children. Even princesses stank from lack of bathing and had mouthfuls of yellowed teeth. The villages reeked of animals and shit--- horse shit, pig shit, human shit--- and the castles were only marginally less fragrant. (Forget the horses: where the hell did all the HORSE CRAP go??) Famine always WAS one drought or flood or even just one bad harvest and one unduly long winter away.

I'm hardly unaware of the fact that this does not make for cheery reading in a fantasy novel. But, for God's sake, if an author is going to write about a fantasy realm where the less photogenic aspects of medieval existence are nowhere to be seen, the author should at least endeavour to explain HOW and WHY these things have been bypassed.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Cause feudalism Sucked, that's why. - [info]alex_von_cercek, 2005-11-17 07:07 am UTC
Re: Cause feudalism Sucked, that's why. - [info]pyrasaur, 2005-11-18 03:34 am UTC
Re: Cause feudalism Sucked, that's why. - [info]brockpaine, 2005-11-18 08:09 pm UTC

[info]capriuni
2005-11-16 09:16 am UTC (link)
Thank you for this.

Also -- Animals have personalities, too (yes, even chickens)!

They don't exist only to be our tools; they can help move a plot forward. If you're writing about travellers, especially. Horses have memories and psychoses, just like people. Some are nervous nellies, others are steady as rock. Some love to play in the water. Some horses are best friends, some can't stand each other.

Not saying you should give every horse and mule in a traveling party a speaking part, but if something strange, unusual, or dangerous is going down, the animals are going to react. And how the animals react will affect how the human characters react.

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[info]blunder_buss
2005-11-16 12:02 pm UTC (link)
“Where did the horses go?” I think, and flip through the book, wondering if they have headed off to a secret horse convocation where they will complain bitterly about how their owners treat them. (Reading about that would often be more interesting than reading about the main plot).

Hmmm ...

*daydream sequence*

Horse #1: GOD, if I have to lug that holy little warrior king around up some godforsaken dragon infested mountain ONE MORE TIME, I'll kick him in the kajones so hard he'll talk like a girl for the rest of his life!

Horse #2: Oh don't even get me STARTED. *I* have to cart around some whiney, bitchy little princess through a freaking desert. Whine whine, moan moan. All. The. TIME. Well EXCUSE ME for not being her inbred little white pony.

Horse #3: Ohmigod, tell me about it. I've been carting around this old mentor and kid, right, and I figure, hey, the humans know what they're doing. Walking through leech-infested swamps and volcanic mountains, okay, cool. But then the mentor says he'll reveal the reason for the quest in 'all due time'. A-WHAT? I've been doing this for NO REASON? I bucked that bastard off so hard he nearly factured a hip!

Horse #2: Oh, you GO girlfriend.

*end daydream sequence*

... I wanna read that.

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[info]reiknight
2005-11-17 12:23 pm UTC (link)
I want to read it too.

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(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2005-11-18 01:49 am UTC

[info]sephielzero
2005-11-16 12:18 pm UTC (link)
One way of saying, “My, the Dark Lord is evil” is to have him screw around with the seasons. Suddenly there’s blistering heat where there should be cold, or vice versa. Or he withers the harvest the moment it appears.

Wheel of Time, anyone?

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[info]reiknight
2005-11-16 01:48 pm UTC (link)
I love this rant.
*bookmarks, prints*
In fact, I like it so much, that I'm going to have a nice little comparison table drawn up in my journal just so I can compare exactly how my two dominant races in one land size up against each other against the first checklist.
*wanders off to do said table*

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[info]odyssea
2005-11-16 02:37 pm UTC (link)
Sometimes, I want to send those authors children's picture books on Colonial Williamsburg, or Plymouth, or Jamestown, and point out that, no, food doesn't magically appear without effort and, yes, you do have to feed and care for animals or they die. Also, that I will just scoff at your magical bathrooms. It isn't that hard to throw in a brief discription of someone pointing to the outhouse or digging a latrine trench.

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[info]reiknight
2005-11-17 12:34 pm UTC (link)
Sometimes, I want to send those authors children's picture books on Colonial Williamsburg, or Plymouth, or Jamestown, and point out that, no, food doesn't magically appear without effort and, yes, you do have to feed and care for animals or they die.
Chickens, one, hot, shadeless day without water, and they die quickly. Pigs become heat stressed very easily and need shade AND a mudhole to keep the bities away as well as cool them down. Personal experience from a sudden heatwave in Australia- we learnt this the hard way, as our mudhole kept drying out in the scorching heat.

Also, that I will just scoff at your magical bathrooms. It isn't that hard to throw in a brief discription of someone pointing to the outhouse or digging a latrine trench.

Maybe these authors are really embaressed about writing their characters going to have a shit or something? Especially in a stinking outhouse? To put it crudely, anyway. :) Plus, what about all these eternal quests where the characters are moving about every day? Do they go behind a author-contrived uh, conveniently located bush, or is it a hole in the ground that they have to dig? Now, if people remembered their childhood camping experiences, then we'd have much better novels.
I reckon these authors are suffering from either sqeamish guts or think that going to "relieve oneself" (as I've seen it put) is rather taboo.

You have to feel sorry for all these poor characters who go through EPICS without ever once going to the toilet. I bet they're just busting to go. :D:D:D:D

Now that I've amused myself at the expense of these poor characters, I'm going to go fix some mistakes in my own novel.

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[info]saadiira
2005-11-16 03:17 pm UTC (link)
Excellent, excellent rant. I am bookmarking it. It might just be my favorite of all times, if only because I've actually thought about these things, too, and even addressed the points myself either in gaming or writing.

1-Gods yes, PLEASE!

2-At the very least, MENTION the stables and the stable boy. Hell, mention giving the poor beasties something special every now and then, or maybe have one of them go lame, or collicky. Great chance to take the horse to the smithy, or have to trade for a fresh, and maybe not so glorious critter. NEVER forget to feed the cat. My one character in a modern setting is on the run with two of them. There are actual legal arrangements (It's not the law she's running from, not that you can't involve an attorney, anyway...) in place to care for the critters in the event of her capture. It's the first thing she asked about when caught, in fact. And when she got them back, they were constantly getting fur on someone. (Or causing situations such as cattus interuptus.)

3-THANK YOU. If you are going to have an eco disaster, have a GOOD one. It might not hurt that I did pretty extensive coursework on this sort of thing (Thus some of my stories of hiking through brackish swamps in my youth), and it's actually an interest, but...at least make an EFFORT if you're going to write about it!

4-It can help if you've actually lived in or visited climates that were not...but to write what you know, you can also do RESEARCH. I admit to sticking to swamps, temperate climates, and deserts mostly, because I've spent serious time in all of the above, but that doesn't mean I can't watch the discovery channel, animal planet, and get out a few bloody books...and then write about rain forests. Or arctic zones. Or just about anything else! The thing is, to actually make the effort, and then describe it.

5-YESYESYESYESYESYESYES! My neo-pagan side alone would thank you for this one. My anthropology professor would be thrilled. Give us more hunter gatherers! At least give us people in tune with their surroundings. Peasants, FARMERS, villagers, even, in rural settings. The seasons, the weather...the forests around them, all of these things would be of very great importance to them. Gathering herbs and mushrooms, and knowing which. Survival while hunting for what game IS allowed. VERY important. Hell, it's even important to city folk. EVERYONE depends on a good harvest. A hardened traveller would be akin, very likely, to a modern day army ranger when it comes to wilderness survival skills.

6-Yes. Thank you. It is an excellent opportunity for description. I've gotten out the Arizona Highways, or National Geographics more than once for inspiration. That, or the family photo album. lol. hell, an afternoon in front of the nature-type channels can do it if the right stuff is on.

7-SO true. I did massive research on flowers, trees, and other assorted flora for a YA novel I've been working on. I won't say too much more, but it involved landscaping. And I wanted to be accurate in my descriptions for what would be blooming, sprouting, or whatever at that time of year in that temperature zone. And what would go well together in a floral border. lol. I actually had quite the blast sitting down at Walden Books and Borders with massive tomes on gardening, and temperature zones, and all. It was FUN! I've done similar things for technologies available in various societies, ecosystems, all sorts of things. Herbal lore can be a fascinating addition. You don't HAVE to make this stuff up. Hell, it can be more interesting when you don't. Or primarily don't. (I will admit to a world with giant pink squirrels. Carniverous ones...)

-Dira-

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Horses
[info]karenrei
2006-03-27 11:44 pm UTC (link)
I'll second #2. I would love to see the secret gathering of city horses that complain about their owners. If anyone writes such a short story, I'll read it ;)

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[info]sabotabby
2005-11-16 03:21 pm UTC (link)
“Where did the horses go?”

Guilty as charged. I have a protagonist with a mule, which was rather easy to care for and utterly useful when she was wandering around the countryside, and is a guaranteed pain in the ass (sorry!) now that she's in a city. It's worse than trying to park a car in Toronto. I know what I'm going to do with it later on, but right now it's conspicuous while she's trying to be discreet, and I wish I could have it wander off to the secret horse convention. Advice?

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[info]crisi83
2005-11-17 05:34 am UTC (link)
The town or inn would probalby have a stable that she can pay to have her mule kept at while she is in town.

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(no subject) - [info]lyorn, 2005-11-17 08:57 am UTC
Long time reader first time replyer
[info]ciage
2005-11-16 04:09 pm UTC (link)
Awesome rant, I was expecting to see something on use of cliche metaphoric weather. I guess it's surprising how often #2 gets used within small groups of characters (1-3) let alone when we discuss calvary. Can't say I'm guilty of that one, but #3 & #4 are awesome to use without using cliche villain related clause because general stresses it creates on both an individual level and a political level.

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Re: Long time reader first time replyer
[info]limyaael
2005-11-18 01:50 am UTC (link)
For me, weather is one of those things that treads the line- it can be dramatic to have a storm the day of a battle, for instance. I find it annoying when it just reflects the protagonist's mood and no one else's. Why should the sun be shining when she kills her enemy? Just because it's a happy day for her doesn't mean it's a happy day for everyone else.

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dismount
[info]renakuzar
2005-11-16 05:16 pm UTC (link)
I've used the need for characters to return to the stables and retrieve their mounts to dump them into an unexpected plot twist. This stuff can be fun.

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[info]browneyedgirl65
2005-11-16 05:58 pm UTC (link)
Another lurker here. I loved this. I actually have the opposite problem, I get so intrigued with "what if you had a culture dealing with this" and proceed to work through what I think are all the implications (and that's a lovely check list) until I stop and think "Plot?"

Oops...

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[info]duckmole86
2005-11-17 06:11 am UTC (link)
Don't I know the feeling. I'm finding more and more that all I really want to do is build the culture of worlds with interesting things like regular rains of fire (what kind of ecosystem deals with that?). But when I come to the part where I have to come up with a plot, I kind of say, "Oops, don't have one of those. Now, where can I buy a decent plot for cheap?" and then promptly shut myself down, as I don't want to write another stupid hero story or something of the sort.

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[info]bookwormauthor
2005-11-16 06:19 pm UTC (link)
Oh, yes, this is wonderful. Figuring out the ecosystem and then how humans fit in with it is one of my favorite parts of writing a novel, but I always forget something. I think I should save the checklist and start expanding it every time I realize something else that I need to address.

Figuring out these things can lead to cool plot points. My NaNovel is about a group of survivors from a volcanic eruption on a ship in the middle of the ocean. And they start getting sick. And it spreads, because they don't have enough space for quarantine or magical healers, and so people die. And then I realized, "What do they do with the bodies?"

Just toss them overboard, right? Well, no. Because this culture worships fire and the volcano, and the depths of the Sea are somewhat similar to the Christian Hell in their mythology. Throw the bodies there? No way! They cremate them. Except, cremation on a fishing boat? I think not.

They'll still end up throwing them overboard, eventually, unless some bright character comes up with something better. But it'll cause a ton of stress on the relationships on this ship, which are already strained enough. Which will be Fun.

Anyway. Very cool rant. Definitely one to remember. Thank you!

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(Deleted post)
(no subject) - [info]bookwormauthor, 2005-11-17 02:28 am UTC

(Deleted post)

[info]baka_kit
2006-01-15 06:26 am UTC (link)
Love Interest: He's Mine
Horse: Chase after him without a kneecap! *kicks*

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