Limyaael (limyaael) wrote,
Limyaael
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On possession, mind control, and hypnosis

This is a broad general topic, admittedly, but each one by itself would probably be too narrow for a rant. Thus, we’re doing it this way.



1) Know how the minds in your story work. For example, if the people in your world use a division of the mind into id, ego, and superego, someone trying to possess your main character might be able to control their ego and superego, thus controlling the public face they present to the world, but the id would remain free and a potential source of trouble. Or vice versa, of course. That would be a slow, interesting way to make the character descend into insanity, actually: work from below and very slowly erode their control over the most selfish parts of themselves, while searches of their conscious minds would reveal nothing and the shift in personality would seem natural.

Perhaps you disdain anything this simplistic. That’s perfectly fine. What you need to know is how much of the mind is really available to the controller or the possessor, or subdued by hypnosis.

Why? Because it affects what the other people in your story can be expected to notice and what the controlled character can do about it. If a mind-controlled character regularly goes into fugue states and loses all memory of their actions while under, then, hey, that might be a great shrieking tocsin that something is wrong here—especially in a world where mind control is known to exist. If a bit of the character is left trapped and helplessly watching the actions of her body, then she might stand a chance of escaping that she won’t if she’s completely subsumed. And then there are the more extreme forms of what can happen to a mind. No one is coming back from what the slake moths do to them in Perdido Street Station, because their minds have been liquefied

Once you know how minds in your world work, you can answer other basic questions like: What happens when mind control is disrupted? How strong is the basic grip of the person doing this? If this is normal hypnosis, what happens to the people who are not readily suggestible? And so on.

2) Remember not to make any means of control infallible. Otherwise, these people would already have taken over the world, and even if you’re writing a secret-conspiracy-they-discover form of the tale, any battle the protagonists conducted would be foredoomed.

Perhaps mind control can be fought by those who have empathic and/or telepathic powers. (Perhaps mind control is an extreme form of telepathy). Perhaps it leaves behind traces that are easily recognized by a knowledgeable person. That’s one of the things wizards in Jim Butcher’s urban fantasy series do: their Sight sees the true psychic state of a person, which includes recognizing psychic wounds inflicted by mind control. The wizards promptly hunt down and execute the responsible parties.

Perhaps the hypnosis has limitations. If you’re planning on using a hypnotist with no magical powers, I would certainly suggest that. (Please pardon the bad pun). Fantastic claims aside, hypnosis cannot make people do things to which they are fundamentally opposed, such as making them murder someone when they deeply believe murder to be wrong. Nor can it readily affect people who are not very trusting; one of the tests used to determine receptiveness to hypnotic suggestion is to have the subject fall backwards into another person’s arms. Someone who can do it makes a much better hypnosis patient than someone who can’t. And people who can go deeply into somnambulistic states, so that the effects of hypnosis are permanent and strong, exist but aren’t the majority either.

What about possession? Well, as usually portrayed it seems to have no limitations; it can make its victims murder their loved ones, go on demonic sprees of terror, and fall victim to crosses. If you can’t bear to limit the strength of the possessor, limit the number of people who can do it and think about making it vulnerable in other ways. Distance is always my favorite for this, as for other mental abilities, because it’s so simple and yet can be used in a variety of ways. If the possessor can only control others from a mile away, people who knock him unconscious, dump him in the middle of a desert miles from civilization with no water or clothing, and then ride madly away are stronger than he is. He’ll likely die before he makes it into the vicinity of anyone he can control. Or they could be even smarter than that, and just kill him outright when they knock him unconscious.

Decide on the strength of these mental abilities early, and keep it consistent. Not doing that usually results in stories where the enemies are strong in the beginning, to build suspense, but then their abilities inexplicably weaken to let the hero/ine escape in the end.

3) Decide their place in the “ecology” of magic. For one thing: Who’s going to teach someone else to control minds? Even if an individual person with this ability isn’t bad-natured, I’d think it would make the people around her freaky. Can she develop and control it on her own? Does she do it accidentally, in the course of attempting to use her magic for something else? (The idea in Butcher’s books is that a lot of young wizards don’t mean to break their victims’ minds, but once they’ve done it, they begin to hunger after power to control other people and start down the road into black magic).

What’s the relationship of possession to mind control? Is it the same thing? What’s the mechanism for the control? Magic, telepathy, a process like hypnosis, an intense study of personality that attunes the person with the ability to just one other mind? Can people keep someone else from controlling them? Do they recognize the intrusion into their heads? What effect does the control have on the person exercising the manipulation? It would be fun to see someone who wasn’t just a Machiavellian mastermind, say a religious hermit who wanted his privacy to meditate on God and used his gift to drive fear into the hearts of those damn kids who kept trying to sneak up into the hills in search of adventure.

What good are these abilities? To commit crimes or take vengeance is the classic answer, but if they leave signs behind, then sooner or later someone will find out, and that’s not so good for the person controlling minds. Perhaps they should have tried good old-fashioned clever plans instead.

Other answers:

-Being the power behind the throne, changing minds in tiny ways to influence political decisions.
-Counseling, a way to introduce prohibitions against behaviors that people want to quit (some real-life hypnotists function this way).
-“Uploading” information; if a manipulator commanded someone else to have perfect memory, he might be able to learn a new skill faster or pass a complicated test.
-Putting on shows (another thing some real-life hypnotists do).
-Stopping criminals, and other people about to do something undesirable; imagine a manipulator on the city guard who could possess the fleeing criminal so that she turned her horse back around, or hold a person about to commit suicide hostage until someone else could physically reach him.
-Beginning the process of healing by letting people back away from their own emotions for a time, or embrace those they’ve long denied. (Please don’t mistake this for an endorsement of instamagical healing, which I hate. Limitations, remember?)
-War, especially messing up the command structure by making generals and key officers give the wrong orders.
-Spies. Assuming they can read any mind they take hold of, and do it fairly subtly, a team of manipulators could be terrifyingly efficient at figuring out where rebellions are fomenting—the Thought Police of 1984 embodied. They might also be able to make the potential rebel leaders march themselves to jail.

All of this still treads an uncomfortable ethical edge—as it should. I think these are abilities hard to write as completely neutral, unlike, say, creating illusions. People who work with the person they know can control minds might still be jumpy, no matter how many assurances of her good will they receive. But it’s more complicated than turning every character like this into a raving maniac or a greedy robber.

4) Know how you intend to depict mental battles. One of the major complaints in stories where a lot of characters are psionic is that mental battles are too fuzzy. So it’s a “titanic struggle”—but because these characters aren’t fighting with their bodies, the author is deprived of a great deal of her usual descriptive language, and she retreats into adjectives that could refer to anything. Or she tries to write it in the language of dreams. I think this is a mistake, unless the character fighting the mind control actually is asleep. The operations of the waking mind are hard to describe, yes, but many of them are a far different experience to the people inside those minds than dreaming is.

So: how to write it?

My favorite way is using analogues of physical conditions, based on fairy tales about two wizards who can both shapeshift, so that one takes the form of a grain of corn and one takes the form of a hen, and so on. The person trying to possess another might envision his attack as a tsunami, irresistible, but perhaps the defender dives to the bottom of the ocean of her own mind and hides. In this kind of battle, the person with the cleverest imagination wins.

Another way is to think about the physical structure of the brain. Can you describe the battle as flickering among synapses, lobes, ganglia? (This assumes a human brain, of course). Perhaps your characters don’t understand them in a scientific way, but they could still describe what they see.

You could also use their cultural conception of the mind. (This is where Point 1 is helpful, since hopefully you’ve already decided how minds, and mind control, work in your world). Many authors write about an astral Otherworld that has fairly consistent landmarks; why couldn’t a mental world be the same way? Everyone’s may be unique, but perhaps they share enough common features that the manipulator who intends to possess someone and make her into a helpless pawn knows he has to chop down all the trees in the Moral Forest.

If mind control is a big factor in your story, you should know how you plan to describe the time spent in people’s heads, battles or not. Description limited to “He was in her head” and “Then he bounced off her shields” gets old real quick.



And I suppose that, for now, that’s all I really have to say, since each point covers a lot of ground.
Tags: fantasy rants: spring 2007, world-building: magic
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Some of these suggestions are encouraging. I've been afraid to go the route of mind control, despite some idea of a possession story.
Glad if they are. As I think I indicated in the rant, the biggest problem I have with these ideas is when they're used to accomplish everything, with no idea of limitations or consistency.
I was going to skip this one, but then I remembered my SF story with telepaths in it ... some of who are able to control other minds. Really good, thanks. It got me thinking about some aspects of having mind control on both sides of the law that I hadn't thought of.
I definitely think that if telepaths are common, they would work both sides of the law. Not everyone, even in a world where they're hunted, is going to want to hurt others.
Thank you so much for this!

Am writing a story on emotional control (a twist on the usual mind control bit) and this really helps! Thanks again.
You're welcome!
that might be a great shrieking tocsin

I LOVE YOU SO BAD you're the only one I know who uses "tocsin" in sentences.

Also, Siddharsvara and Teal do not thank you for this rant, as it forced me to sit down and work out further the actual extent of their power, and its limitations.

(I discovered about fifteen minutes ago that one limit on Siddharsvara's power is how much he likes or dislikes his target.)
I learned "tocsin" from a book I read when I was a teenager. I want to blame Dragonsdawn by McCaffrey, but I think that was "klaxon."

(Ooh, like and dislike are good ones! I'd think empathy for the person being possessed might weaken a controlling effort, even if the manipulator was temporarily pissed off).
I have a story I'm currently working on where one of the main characters - who everyone seems to despise so far, which makes sense, given that he's rather an ass - works on suggestion through music, specifically through his voice and song. So far, it seems that the more musically inclined a person is, the more effect his hypnosis/suggestion has. (For instance, the next character I'm planning to introduce is tone-deaf and possibly hard-of-hearing, which will basically mean that singer lad is utterly out of luck with him.)

If he's really trying, he can stir up a mob, but he can't control one. At least, not for more than a few moments.
...I really, really like the idea of controling the subconscious. That would make for a seriously creepy villian. Listen to your daughter, screaming away. Isn't she just so troublesome? Wouldn't it be so much better if she was gone?

Also, the imagination battle concept. I'm not likely to use that one, but it is a very cool idea nevertheless.
There are all these villains who are coldly planning masterminds who have years to work on their plots around, anyway, so why couldn't they do something like that? I think the major fault of many fantasy villains is that their plans are not undetectable enough.

Meanwhile, your specific example makes me shiver.

m_a_foxfire

9 years ago

duckmole86

9 years ago

m_a_foxfire

9 years ago

duckmole86

9 years ago

RE: #4 - there's a series of cheesy BL novels called 'Kill the Crows of Three Thousand Worlds' which has a fairly interesting visualization of minds for a mind-reader character. He perceives an ordinary mind as a pair of ticker-tapes - one with symbols, representing thoughts, and the other with colors, representing emotions. The main character frightened the mind reader, however, when the mind reader tried to read him and found he only had one ticker tape, the one with symbols - and each emotion was spelled out in symbols, as if it were a computer's imitation of emotion rather than real emotion.
I think that idea really works.

woodburner

9 years ago

l_clausewitz

9 years ago

Reply #2

Just finished rereading Stephen King's Firestarter where one of the main characters has a mental domination psychic power.
I really admired how the character was portrayed through out the story. He uses his ability to hold confidence classes and seminars for different goals (weight loss to business confidence). While he is on the run he uses it minimally because he's beginning to feel the effects of mental burn out. At several points in the story he loses feeling in his face or gets such massive headaches that he can't even move for days. Eventually he even suffers a stroke.
The ability itself has limits based on the subjects; smart people are easy to push while stupid people are harder to deal with. There's even a race issue invovled with who's easier to dominate.
A wonderful example is DC comics' Max Power's mind control. He gets nosebleeds in proportion to how much control he's exercising and over how many people.

In this comic scan, he's attempting to maintain control of a committee, specifically so that they think everything's hunky-dory. Which only gives him a slight nosebleed.

Until two superheroes fly by the window.

Followed by an insane Martian Manhunter.

And his ground strike.

And the window shattering.

MUST - MAINTAIN - CONTROL - GNNN!

Re: Spoilers

baeraad

9 years ago

Re: Spoilers

seawolf10

9 years ago

Re: Spoilers

mokie

9 years ago

Deleted comment

I like the idea of a power that comes with that much built in hassle.

Exactly. And things get more complicated if the user can actually apply mind-control to him/herself, because that multiplies the possibilities for confusion and abuse....
Thank you so much. A large part of my WIP deals with the protagonist having his priorities substantially rewritten by his "mentor," and so this is very helpful indeed.
*icon love*
May I steal?

sarahbrand

9 years ago

diannaskye

9 years ago

Lots of cool points to ponder here, nice rant.
Ooh, shiny! I've got a few characters who're mind-readers/etc., and this will help a lot. It gives me lots to think about, too. Yay!
Ohh, interesting. :) I'll keep this entry in mind for further use, for sure. I've had to work on this problem for a story set in a world in which psychic powers exist, and it's not always evident to take everything into account to avoid telepathy being used at length for everything. Most of the telepaths are very early taught that possessing/controlling a mind is sort of akin to raping a neonate, but since there are always dissidents, they've had to create a special body-behind-the-official-body to keep those under control... and then of course what happens when someone still manages to bypass that. It's pretty hard at times to not fall into the trap of being incoherent with that stuff!
I think one way of limiting mind control and so on is for the writer to remember that actually "mind control" is something perfectly ordinary human beings can and do do in the real world (often very nastily, as in the case of abusive relationships) - thinking of psychic mind control as being on a continuum of ordinary abilities helps me, at least, not assume it can handle every little wrinkle in the plot. (After all, if people can recover from patterns of thought laid down over years of being controlled, why shouldn't they recover from the psychic version?).

I wrote a series of shortish stories in which a very nasty telepath abducted a girl for amusement, and proceeded to break her down without actually needing to use telepathic control, but by the old-fashioned method of being alternatingly physically/emotionally abusive and understanding/kind so she never knew which reaction she'd get, and depended on him totally. Simply reading her mind occasionally convinced her he was doing it all the time, and she could never have a secret thought.
I've seen too many stories where various kinds of mental control are de facto shortcuts the writer uses because they cannot think of any good motivations or because they want four-color type "clash of heroes". The whole idea if somewhat soured in my mind.
2) Remember not to make any means of control infallible. Otherwise, these people would already have taken over the world, and even if you’re writing a secret-conspiracy-they-discover form of the tale, any battle the protagonists conducted would be foredoomed.

See, that's the problem I have with the Imperius Curse in the Harry Potter series. Basically, all you have to do is really WANT to control another person, then wave the way and say the word...and voilá, you have control over another person's mind. In most cases, the witch or wizard casting the spell can make his or her target do anything; being able to fight the spell is very very rare. And the caster can maintain the control for years.

Given the power of this spell, I don't know why Voldemort and his Death Eaters don't just cast this spell on various influential politicians, newspapermen, judges and so on, telling them that what the Dark Lord wants is good and right, and that from now on they'll work for his goals with unstinting devotion. I also don't know why, given the battles that have appeared in the past two books, that Death Eaters haven't hit members of the Order of the Phoenix with the Imperius Curse in mid-fight. Honestly, isn't making the enemy your friend one of the best ways of defeating the enemy?

But for some reason, this insanely powerful spell is only used on tertiary characters--characters who are little more than mere names mentioned in passing. It makes me wonder why Imperio exists at all.
IMPERIO you-are-not-allowed-to-use-IMPERIO!

gehayi

9 years ago

phasmas

9 years ago

boxfulofkittens

9 years ago

thricebornfenix

9 years ago

the_s_guy

9 years ago

l_clausewitz

9 years ago

ladysugarquill

8 years ago

gehayi

8 years ago

ladysugarquill

8 years ago

Great rant, really interesting.
Hmmm...not making mind control infallible. Right now I'm experimenting with an idea where the ability for mind control actually tempts the user to control his/her own mind and fold in to a "warm fuzzies," near-vegetative state. But that still sounds a bit too simple so I'm still trying to poke more holes in it. Fortunately, I don't have to find an explanation for why the mind-controllers haven't taken over the world because they have taken over this story's world.

What bothers me most about using mind control in a story, though, is that sometimes it's hard to keep it from slipping out of the fantasy area and into the realm SF. The need to make sure that it's consistent eventually leads to the temptation to describe it in an overly scientific manner, and I'm beginning to fear that it might dilute the fear and the shock felt by the victim of the mind control thing. What's worse, the story actually attempts to make a fantasy rendition of SF dystopias like the ones found in Brave New World or Nineteen Eighty-Four.

Bad plotbunnies.

And now, since Pratchett is the one I can usually rely on to get such things right, I'm wondering whether any of his novels include prominent instances of mind control other than that done by the talking dog in Ankh-Morpork. Can anybody give me a clue?
In Thud! there's a case of demonic possession that's played so subtly that it takes a while for the reader to even notice that a certain character is acting... not so much unlike himself, but rather more like himself than he usually acts. =]

phasmas

9 years ago

l_clausewitz

9 years ago

In my fantasy project, I have two characters to whom this rant could apply. One of them is an empath by contact, and can influence other's emotions as if they were his own, and the other character has a suggestion power over crowds. The more people being suggested, and the more gullible they are, the easier and stronger they can be suggested. For example, he has very mild power over single individuals and none over very strong people willing to resist, but he can easily convince thousands of people at a time that, yeah, they should do this or that. I think is is plausible because crowds are more easily convincable than single individuals.
-Beginning the process of healing by letting people back away from their own emotions for a time, or embrace those they’ve long denied. (Please don’t mistake this for an endorsement of instamagical healing, which I hate. Limitations, remember?)

This gives me an idea that I doubt I could do justice to. What if someone tried to help a friend by releasing a bunch of repressed emotions and/or memories and wound up making things worse instead of better?
Speaking as someone who is in the process of dealing with repressed emotions/memories coming to the surface I must say this result is far more likely than instamagical healing.
I have a situation that I've set up that's almost like that, except that Pree was neither trying to help nor hurt when she went and broke the barrier in Kyrie's repressed memories...she was just curious about the strong but strangely inaccessible feelings she was sensing in her new friend. I'm not sure if I feel like I can do justice to what Kyrie's feeling, though, so I'm rather nervous about writing her.

serpentrose

9 years ago

Also, it's like evil psychic spackle of doom.

Reader: Hey, how come the vizier helps the characters behind the scenes here, and could only do that if he knew this, but later on, does that, which seems counterproductive, and why couldn't he have arrested them in the *third* chapter.
Author: Oh, um, he was under mind control but it was intermittent.
Reader: Mind control, riiight. But what about...
Author: Ah, ah. *does finger wag* No questions, it's magic.

:)
*giggles* This reminds me of one of the characters that a friend of mine often lets 'take over' our chats. He has this magic keyboard that makes the other characters (and sometimes us, the Creators) do whatever he wants. It often leaves us with conversations along this line:

Boy 1: *dances around in pink tutu, kissing all the girls*
Boy 2: *shakes head, then looks at the Creators* Do you think he's trying to do that?
Creator 1: *starts following Boy 1 around room, begging to be kissed next*
Magic Keyboard Mastermind: *cracks up*
Boy 1 and Creator 1: We're gonna kill yo-- *stop yelling and start shooting sparkles at each other*
Random other character: *grabs magic keyboard and runs*
Interesting about describing mental battles. It's hard to do it in an interesting way. I'm thinking about cheating and make the battle all about avoiding saying and doing the things that will allow possession (like not asking direct questions to a dark deity, or directly ask for favours, give away you name etc).

In my world dark gods and powers can get control over mortals through deals and mistakes. If you know the name of a dark god, it gives you some power, but say that god's name three times and you are inviting possession and worse. Having sexual relationships with a dark power can prove really dangerous, as everything they say suddenly seems much more reasonable. Even agreeing with them too much will lead to slowly accepting things that you ordinary know would be insane. A willing possession is also possible, how pleasant it is depends on the power in question.
WRT hypnosis: I personally am persuaded by the real-world evidence that there's no such thing as a hypnotic state; hypnotism is a sort of role-playing by people who believe that hypnosis exists and that they have been hypnotized.

Nicholas Spanos's research in this area is - well, his writing is leaden, but his experiments were brilliant. In one, he gave "hypnotized" patients a sheet of paper with the number 8 written on it and told them it was blank. Patients described it as blank, acted as though it was blank, et cetera. After "waking" them from hypnosis, he told them that hypnotic subjects see the image on the paper disappear, and asked them how they had perceived it. Even though the subjects had previously claimed the paper was entirely blank, and that while hypnotized they couldn't see anything on it, they now correctly recalled what was on the paper and described it disappearing. In other words, they changed their stories from "I didn't know what was on the paper when I was hypnotized" to "I knew, and here's how it happened" based on their perception of what a "real" hypnotic subject should perceive.

In another experiment, Spanos "hypnotized" subjects to cough when they heard the word "psychology." He also arranged with a confederate to ask the subjects for directions to the psychology department. Spanos found that subjects coughed when they were in his office, but not outside it when talking to the confederate - in other words, the hypnotic suggestion only seemed to apply when the subjects were playing the part.

I should note that this wasn't necessarily conscious fraud on the subjects' part; it may have been a case of subjects responding in ways appropriate to their beliefs about hypnotism, analysis to behavior like speaking in tongues in some Christian churches or going into trances in some Caribbean syncretic religions - behavior experienced as uncontrollable and directed by outside forces, but clearly governed by social rules.

I'm not trying to suggest that classic "mind-control" hypnosis is offlimits for fantasy and SF - quite the contrary; genre literature by its nature makes use of non-real elements, and they're often more consistent if they're based on real-world ideas (whether those ideas are "here's what a manticore is" or "here's what hypnosis is".) Instead, I'm trying to point out another area where the popular idea of hypnosis doesn't line up with the research.
Er, "analysis to" = "analogous to". And I previewed it and everything.

Wow...

sinande

9 years ago

Re: Wow...

boxfulofkittens

9 years ago

Re: Wow...

sinande

9 years ago

Paranoid and violent organizations (such as are most criminal ones or security services under a dictatorship) are very vulnerable to subtle mind control subversion, because a clever mind controller can easily start an violent internal power struggle.
Except when those organizations are already led by or composed of mind-controllers in the first place--though that only leads to a different and no less exciting kind of internal backstabbing...
Yet another applicable rant! I have the antagonist controlling/influencing an important cleric who would would normally be opposing him politically, and it's noticeable to those who know her that she's acting differently. I don't want to make mind control too prevalent, though, and it's definitely forbidden, though I imagine some people use it anyway. Perhaps just needs to be too draining for most people to use often, though it'd be within the antagonist's power since he has special circumstances that others wouldn't know about :P Otherwise someone would figure it out too quickly...

I think in the first version of this novel, we actually had some kind of mental battle with the protagonist "interviewing" a guard whose memory had been wiped inside his head. I think it was like a conversation, but when he got to a certain topic he was suddenly blocked off. Of course, that was the crap version so it was kinda dumb, but it definitely has potential to recycle :P
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